On 09/20/2014 10:11 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/20/2014 9:51 PM, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
It seems the developers make the decisions and users feel left out.
What we want does not seem to matter.
There are positive methods of influencing the decisions that Debian
makes and negative methods.
Positive methods include:
1) filing accurate bug reports
2) participating in technical discussions with specific use cases
3) running tests
4) contributing documentation
5) clarifying the technical ramifications
and a whole host of other aspects too numerous to mention here. If
anyone reading this is unsure of how they can contribute to Debian, feel
free to contact me (or any other Debian volunteer, really) at any time.
Negative methods include all kinds of personal attacks, maligning Debian
in general, or continually posting the same arguments after decisions
have been made without new information. These methods are not
appropriate, and do not belong on Debian mailing lists.
People are doing this just BECAUSE the feel the developers aren't
listening. They have tried the positive things, within their technical
and time limitations. And when they feel their positive contributions
are not being listened to, they start with the negative methods.
Now maybe the users DO matter, and developers DO listen to us. If that
is the case, you need to communicate that fact better.
I'm here, listening. Other DDs are to.
That may be - I don't know, because I've seen so few contributions to
the discussions here. And I'm sure others feel that way also, which is
why the complaints.
Maybe between having to have real life paying gig, Debian devel, and
most likely family obligations, they don't have time left to hang here
and address each individual beef.
Then please explain to us why, with all of the negative technical
aspects surrounding systemd, it looks to be the default init in Jessie.
It's just the way they went to go. I have had zero problems with it, as
a mere user. I did my part by installing Jessie fresh, so I wouldn't be
part of the noisy problems on this list with left over old cruft
competing for attention. My reward was a very well running install, that
apparently was well crafted by some very talented people.
It all just works. Since I paid nothing, I certainly got much more than
my money's worth. I fail to see where we should jerk on their chains to
demand more of their time by hanging here as well, like we have some
right to demand any thing. That just comes off as presumptuous.
Keep in mind they have the freedom to walk off this non-paying gig and
to tell us all to go pound sand.
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256
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