On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 11:31:57AM -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > > Obviously it is important enough to enough users that it continues here. > And shutting people up is not going to make the problem go away. It > will, however, make users go away. I, for one, am looking at other > systems now. And I think it is highly likely this path will force > another fork of Debian, as occurred when Ubuntu forked. >
Ubuntu started as a friendly fork: as someone said at the time "If we could have got away with calling it Debian for desktops, we would have done" - notably, they still pull from Debian and build on it. Using systemd requires work and testing: not using systemd requires work, testing and forking your oun distribution in the teeth of almost every distribution, desktop environment and active development stream. That may not be pleasant - but it's about the size of it. For me, I don't care about desktops on most of my systems: I have been using systemd on a couple of machines and working well for me at the moment: if I were building systems with KDE and GNOME for others, I'd be bound to use systemd. Moving further out in the ecosystem - if my work uses Red Hat and systemd, then persuading folk to try Debian on the same hardware with the same commands they are already using won't be as hard. Red Hat 7 is using systemd - all the Red Hat courses have already switched. Jessie freezes no later than November 5th 2014. Allow folk who are trying to work on the distribution to work on it and not to have to intervene in this sort of discussion, please. > > Only a few supporters of systemd call it shite and bitching, and try to > shut off the subject. Others look at the real issues involved. > > I haven't said much until now, but I have followed the subject in depth > the whole time. And I, for one, am very happy this was brought to my > attention. It has allowed me to make an intelligent decision as to > whether to upgrade or go to another distro. > > > > I realise that the objective of the Debian Project, is tied up in the > > word "free", and, thence, mailing lists free of moderation, but the > > way that the bitching on this list, has been going, it is > > encouragement for the public to avoid Debian and all that it entails, > > and, I believe that the bitching about the conduct of the Debian > > developers, warrants moderation, so that the list can become useful, > > and, can dulfill the objective iof providing assistance to users, > > instead of being designed to drive users away. > > > > > > Censoring a conversation has never solved a problem or made it go away. > It will not do so here, either. > > Jerry > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: https://lists.debian.org/541eef6d.70...@attglobal.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140921184218.ga5...@galactic.demon.co.uk
