Hey, I've been using and teaching debian for years now, and have mostly been thinking the community was friendly and dealing with consensus seeking with good faith.
Nevertheless, I've also been thinking that being really involved in the debian community as a queer (not straight or not binary cisgendered) must be a harsh thing. I've never been deeply into debian though. I am myself a transwomen, and reading tina's post made me angry and sad at the debian community. It also revived my never ending hopeless wish to see things change. Tina you have my full (but sadly pretty much useless) support. I eventually read most posts of this thread on -project@. What I see from my far position is just the same as everywhere else: some cis-gendered guys have behaviors and words that have very violent consequences. They don't even realize (or maybe do, but who cares). Then some people gather courage and call out the violence. Then some other show up and say their vision on the situation (who asked?). And some support the persons who got headshot by the sexist/homophobic/transphobic/racist/ableist/whatever violence. I have seen many messages stating that one should always respect the CoC when answering hate messages such as the ones from norbert and gerardo. I want to say that this is *bullshit*. This is bullshit because the violence *has been there already*, when people have refused to respect genders and names other people use. And I can assure you, I would prefer to be told 1000 times that i'm a hasshole than 10 times misgendered or deadnamed. There is just no way to compare a violence where people feel hurt because of an insult with a violence where people feel like they don't have the f*ckin right to exist and have a word to say about *their own identity*. Plus that violence is a systemic violence. It doens't only come from individuals, it comes from the media, the police, the state, at school, at work, at home, in the music, in the movies, in front of big groups or with our best friends. So, please stop calling such nice answers "violent". If I wanted to be violent against transphobic people I'd just go find them and break their knees with a baseball bat. That would be kind of violent I reckon. I am also sad to see people make jokes or be cynical in this thread. I'm sorry you cis-gendered straight, but you just don't get it: we HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HERE and cannot respond to your violence better than we do. Your jokes and sealioning and misrespect are bullets that violently crush in our bullet-kinda-proof jacket, we get hurt a lot, but we get up again, and we strive to keep standing up, and we will never give up. I've also read multiple times that debian or individuals should not take positions on political things. Please remember that not taking position *is taking position for the dominant*. So yes, Debian *must* take position (and it already does on many topics), and individuals should too, if they don't want to support the mainstream/dominant ideas and behaviors. norbert: > gerardo: >> I had thought that there was room for a dissenting opinion, but >> clearly there isn't. > > Unfortunately there isn't, but room for insults and aggressions, if they > come from the "correct" group. We are not talking about opinions or positions. I think Rhonda said it very well[1]. You gender normals males have the right and place to express your emetic thoughts mostly everywhere (when it's about gender, at least). I hope Debian can stay a place where marginalized people can speak and be listened to. Regarding the "correct" group, please, gender normals males, remember that YOU are the freaking correct group. YOU have all gender-related privileges. I don't have to bring facts here right? You know that already. sam: > I personally hope that we choose to respect people always--even when > they do not respect us in return. If you also mean "we choose to always respect people, even when they did not respect us before", then take a punch in your face 50 times a day and try to gently ask for help. You will scream, I would bet! As a last thing, I'd like to say that in this whole mess I have seen quite a lot of support for tina and what she said, and this makes me less angry and sad than right after reading her first email. Thank you for showing up, taking a risk in telling your support, and making this debate not be flooded by bigots all the time. My solidarity goes to women, transgenders, non-binary folks, faggots, dykes, people of color, lesbians, gays, people with different abilities, the fat, the youngests, the oldests, the weirdoes, the freaks, the ones that have died for their survivance, the ones who are still alive and fighting. gagz PS: To everyone on this list, I recommend you watch Hannah Gadsby "Nanette" show. [1]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/12/msg00075.html
