Dalibor Topic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Brian Thomas Sniffen wrote: >> Dalibor Topic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> But distributing them as one work -- say, the Debian OS -- is covered >> by the GPL. In what way is Debian not a "work that you distribute or >> publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the >> Program (Kaffe) or any part thereof"? > > That's the 'Debian OS includes a GPLd work, so everthing must be GPLd' > fallacy. :) > > It is in the same way the Debian OS is not illegal to distribute just > because it in whole or in part contains both the Linux kernel and the > apache web server, as the GPL is incomatible with the apache > license. But as the GPL of one work does not put restrictions on > separate, non-derived works distributed alongside it, everything is > fine.
So long as all they are is merely aggregated with it, this is true. When they are entwined with dependencies, every component of the collection must be distributed under the GPL. > Were your intepretation correct, the GPL would not be DFSG-free, and > the kernel, gcc, bash, and all that would have to move to non-free > leaving nothing in main, afaict. > >> There is a slight mistake in what you have said. My claim is that >> Eclipse does not infringe, but a work containing Eclipse and Kaffe >> entwined does. Something copyrightable, GPLd from Kaffe has to end up >> in the copy of *Debian* that is being distributed, which it clearly >> does. > > Debian does not distribute Kaffe and Eclipse entwined though. Eclipse > contains no part of Kaffe nor is it derived from it. Neither is Kaffe > derived from Eclipse or contains parts thereof. So there is nothing > copyrightable from one work ever ending up in the other and no mixing > happens in the separate packages. > > Debian OS already has the licenses to distribute both eclipse and > Kaffe. As no DFSG-free license places restrictitons on data > distributed on the same medium alongside it, there is no problem in > doing so. > >>>It doesn't concern Eclipse any more than distributing the Linux >>>kernel, gcc, bash, or anything else under the GPL does, because to all >>>these programs, Eclipse is a bunch of data, just like for Kaffe. >> Were that the case, Eclipse could go in Main without Kaffe being >> there at all. But it's not in main right now -- because there's no >> free JVM for it to depend on. > > Eclipse is not in main because of debian's policy for main, which > says, afaik among other things, that a work can only go into main if > both the license of the work is DFSG-free and it is buildable with > other works in main. And the latter just happened. > > As Gadek is annoyed that Eclipse 3 builds and works with Kaffe but not > with his 'competing' SableVM, he tried to scare the Eclipse 3 packager > from submitting it by shouting that running Eclipse on Kaffe is > illegal (see subject ;). > > That's all a part of a long FUD campaign against users, developers and > distributors of Kaffe led by a few SableVM developers since 2002, in > order to scare people into using, developing and distributing SableVM > instead of Kaffe. Sigh. That's more disgusting than your dollar bills. > I'm sorry for using very graphical terms on this list and to vomiting > all over you in particular. I've lost my patience there. I've been at > the receiving end of this anti-Kaffe, anti-GPL fud every couple of > months since mid-2002, and I've been at the receiving end of vague > suggestions that I could be sued in Canada[1], the home of SableVM > developers, for interpreting the GPL in the way that is not to a > SableVM developer's liking, and so on, and so on, despite that the > original authors of Kaffe clearly interpreted the GPL in a very > permissive way, as can be seen here: > > http://web.archive.org/web/20011211201322/http://www.kaffe.org/FAQ.html > > "Can I run proprietary Java applications and native JNI libraries > under Kaffe? > > Yes, you can. Kaffe's choice of GPL does not affect your ability to > run any Java or JNI-based code that you could run on any other Java > virtual machine." Can you get an explicit answer from them as to whether you can distribute proprietary applications with Kaffe? -Brian -- Brian Sniffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
