On 12/25/2011 11:11 PM, Arne Wichmann wrote: [...] >> b) at least for those who have access to Debian machines nothing is >> happening behind the scene, given that 'events@d.o' is archived on >> master [8]. > >> [8] >> <http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/README?revision=1.8&view=markup> > > I have not. Am I the only one to which this applies?
No. we often have people organizing stuff which are not DDs. >> c) I do not consider *any* wiki as official documentation, which means >> that the wikipage Arne referred to [9] should not be used as such. >> >> [9] <http://wiki.debian.org/CategoryEvents> > > On the other hand, a wiki page is a good means to organise events. And it worked very well for a lot of events. I doubt there is a better way to organize booth staffing and who-brings-what-and-when. >> d) I think there is a misunderstanding of what I wrote at [6], here the >> extract of my words: >> >> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >> Submitting an event >> =================== >> >> This is the easiest part: whenever you know of any event Debian is >> present, simply send an email in English to <eve...@debian.org> [15]. >> We will then do all the necessary steps to find someone willing to >> participate/coordinate the Debian presence and announce the event to the >> appropriate debian-events-* mailing lists [16][17][18][19], if not >> already done. >> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- >> >> As far as I read the text above, the Events team *does* not organize >> an event, instead it will (or it should or, if you prefer, I think it >> should): >> >> 1. receive notice of an event Debian will take part in. >> 2. if not already present, find the main responsible for that event >> (we request that for the entry in the event page [10][11]). >> 3. add the event to the event page [11]. >> 4. if not already done, announce the event to the (language/region- >> specific) debian-events-*@ mailing list, so the *official* event >> page at [11] can be used. >> >> [10] >> <http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/webwml/webwml/english/events/event.form?revision=1.10&view=markup> >> [11] <http://www.debian.org/events> >> >> I still fail to see why/how you think that the Events team wants to >> centralize how events are managed, while we try to publicize as >> much/best as possible the highest number of events *through* official >> channels. >> >> At DebConf11, during the Events BoF [12] this topic was discussed >> again and I thought what I summarized in the report [13] was the >> consensus drawn from the discussion, let me quote my words: > > My argument is: event coordination should be possible without a central > instance. ACK ACK ACK!!!!! > At the moment the workflow is: mail the event to > debian-events-$locale (using suitable locale), the organizer mails that he > is doing so to the same mailing list and typically creates a wiki page for > further organizing. There is no human single point of failure in that > workflow. Moreover the workflow works for everyone, not only DDs. > > I am not against informing events@d.o, though. > >> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >> First, for the mailing list, the idea would be to still use the >> already-established debian-events-$SOMETHING [13] mailing list for >> coordination, with a "new" mailing list for announcement only (both >> minor and major events). This should be a restricted-posting mailing >> list (probably Events and Press membership only): its aim is to provide >> email notifications whenever a new event is added to the website. A >> parallel approach would be to duplicate the announcements on Planet >> Debian, but these points must be coordinated with the Publicity team. >> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- >> >> [12] <http://penta.debconf.org/dc11_schedule/events/731.en.html> >> [13] <http://lists.debian.org/87fwlbctds....@gismo.pca.it> >> >> The Events team has not started yet to use debian-news@ as the >> "general" mailing list for *all* announcements [14], but from the >> extract above it seems clear to me that in case Debian will gain >> other *official* channels, we will use them (e.g. blog.d.o). >> >> [14] <http://bugs.debian.org/643647> >> >>> And I'm still wondering if a German-speaking debian-events-de@l.d.o >>> list (like the Dutch speaking debian-events-nl@l.d.o) wouldn't be a >>> good idea either. >> >> From an announcement POV, yet another mailing list would be a pain, >> because this means that the Events team, *if not notified*, will miss >> more events. Just to provide an example: Debian will be present at the >> forthcoming 28C3 [15], but no one told the Events team about that, >> except Paul Wise last Saturday via IRC [16] (FYI he is acting as a proxy >> for us since a while). > > CCC organisation is as chaotic as the event (it even has chaos in its > name). I do not feel that it is a good example for anything. May be the events team should - instead of founding itself - talk to those people who are known to provide merch and booth material if they want to join and what they can provide? >> [15] <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEventsDe/2011/28C3> >> [16] <irc://irc.oftc.net/debian-events> >> >> From a coordination POV, given that as Arne wrote debian-events-eu@ is >> low-traffic, I still think too much fragmentation is worthless and it >> will keep away contributors. Again, just to provide an example: I do >> not speak German, but I was happy to help for the Debian booth at the >> Chemnitzer Linux-Tage 2011 [16]. This because everything was done >> through debian-events-eu@ and not a localized mailing list. > > The other side of the argument is that english lists for german events are > an unnecessary communication barrier. Not that I feel that this is a > decisive argument. Should not be such an issue imho. In the worst case people could post German to the -eu list, somebod wil lhelp out and translate. >> [16] <http://lists.debian.org/87bp0rxlwq....@gismo.pca.it> >> >>> (Cc to events@d.o, so that they are aware of this discussion in case >>> they really don't follow debian-events-eu@l.d.o closely enough.) >> >> Thank you Axel, the *latter* is the problem: ATM the Events team has to >> monitor various channels (IRC, mailing lists and planets, even >> non-Debian [17]) to be aware of events, while as I see it it should be >> the other way around. >> >> [17] >> <http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20111210.235459.a8d46a5b.en.html> > > On the other hand, I feel that the events team should read debian-events-* > (at least collectively - not necessarily everyone should read every list). Even better: the even team should consist of people from each d-events-$(locale) list (probably those who are organizing a lot of stuff). > In the case of non-english lists a proxy might be used. > > So, the main question for me is, how should my future workflow look like > when announcing and/or organizing an event. -- Bernd Zeimetz Debian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.de http://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-events-eu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ef7c012.9060...@debian.org
