> On 30 May 2024, at 09:15, Marc Haber <mh+debian-de...@zugschlus.de> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 14:35:27 +0300, Hakan Bay?nd?r
> <ha...@bayindir.org> wrote:
>> I'll kindly disagree here. I'd rather not have to go back to every
>> system and make sure that they all behave the way I want after doing a
>> periodic, completely boring "apt-get upgrade".
>
> This change is likely to come to the majority of our installations
> ("stable") with a release upgrade, which is never boring, but one of
> the most exciting things that can happen to a Debian stable system.
You’re right, new Debian releases always brings me joy too. I used “completely
boring” in a positive way, to underline how uneventful a Debian release upgrade
is in 99.999% of the time. In other words, I wanted to underline that I prefer
the next release would be what I expect from Debian. Upgrade, reboot, continue
drinking coffee and do productive things.
If a new installation comes with different defaults, as I said before, I’m OK
with that. Software evolves, and should evolve. What I don’t prefer is forcing
on this evolution on me, on an established system. I work with a lot of
servers. I don’t want to worry about uncontrolled configuration changes
happening on updates.
>
> People doing this responsibly read the release notes before beginning,
> and those release notes have in the past contained things that needed
> doing manually in the process such as the well-known "please upgrade
> kernel first and reboot" during one udev/systemd upgrade.
I also read the release notes and any caveats and warnings before starting,
however what I don’t expect is to reconfigure a fleet of servers to restore
some settings which I customized for the particular role and software on that
server. I know configuration changes are negotiated during upgrades, but when
partition changes and automated deletion schedules are “inflicted”, that’s
something bigger than “we upgraded this daemon/tool and brought better
defaults, wanna look?” Which happens during upgrades.
> Ubuntu seems to have put the release notes in an automatism disguise
> called do-release-upgrade which probably changes from release to
> release regarding what specialty is in the store for this update. We
> don't have that, we ask our users to read the release notes.
I’m not a big fan of Ubuntu and how they do things, and I don’t use it. I
prefer Debian to be Debian and to need some RTFM process to administer
correctly. I’m an old school person and sysadmin. I prefer a more direct, “this
machine has no brain, use yours” approach. :)
> Greetings
> Marc
Hope I managed to express myself in an understandable way this time. :)
Cheers,
H.
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
> Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
> Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
