Control: tag -1 wontfix On dim., 2014-09-07 at 21:53 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Yves-Alexis Perez, le Sun 07 Sep 2014 21:15:19 +0200, a écrit : > > On dim., 2014-09-07 at 21:13 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > > Well, for a blind user, it *is*!... > > > > Sure, but not everyone's blind. > > And not everyone speaks all languages on earth, yet we install all > language files by default, which really eats a lot of disk by default, > just because we can't know when one will need it because a random user > happens to need it. That is the same with accessibility.
Last time I did an install, a debconf question was actually asking about the locale. > > > I sympathise with a11y, but forcing gnome-orca on everyone won't > > happen. > > Well, that is actually precisely our goal: to have gnome-orca installed > on all systems, ready to be started in case one needs it. Then it's unrelated to Xfce, and you want to include that in the base system. I would still disagree, but that wouldn't be my call anyway. > > There is this very simple scenario: you welcome a blind guest at home, > and he'd like to use the home computer. Currently, with XFCE, you'd > click on "Enable assistive technologies", and unlog/relog. But nothing > happens, no speech. You then have to connect to the Internet (who knows > whether it works that day), look for why this is not working, eventually > understand that you need to install the gnome-orca package, install it, > etc. and at last it works. > > Another typical scenario is a public library with computers: there is > very little hope that the user will manage to find out how to contact > the sysadmin to get gnome-orca installed (and there is very little hope > that the sysadmin will have already thought about installing it), so he > will just not be able to use the computer at all. > > Yes, real accessibility means being available, ready to be enabled. Any > barrier is really a killing pain for disabled people. I'm sure you can find a lot of slightly convoluted scenarios. I'm sure we can find a lot of them for a lot of packages, actually. > > > > Anyhow, what do you propose to fix the accessibility of XFCE? Adding > > > the > > > dependency to task-xfce-desktop? (Cc-ed) > > > > That's exactly the same thing. Just create an a11y subtask or whatever, > > bringing everything needed? > > That won't change the fact that we'll want to always install it by > default (thus at least via a Recommends) Again, I'd disagree with that, but still. > > Just to bring the figure in the discussion: from a base system, > installing task-xfce-desktop without Orca uses 1596MiB. Adding Orca > brings 1658MiB, so that's just a 3% increase. That's not just a question of installed size. A lot of people want to keep a somehow minimal system in term of disk, memory, CPU time, and which doesn't get in their way. And some actually chose Xfce *for* that. Even though it's quite hard to achieve these days, Xfce is designed to be modular, and will (apparently) happily support gnome-orca if installed. Fine. In any case, the original bug was about adding dependency to xfce4-session, and the answer is no (and the same applies to the xfce task). If you want to add gnome-orca to the base system, I don't think it's the right place. Regards, -- Yves-Alexis
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