On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:17:50AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > On Tue, 2023-03-21 at 00:34 +0100, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote:
>> Would an ARM-based machine be a good freedom-respecting computer to >> run Debian on? I read the Raptor/Power guys saying modern ARM has >> freedom problems in a, but I haven't seen them go into specifics. > It depends on what you mean by freedom-respecting. Mostly, I wanted to understand the main alternatives and their level of freedom. In an ideal world, I'd like every bit of software, drivers, firmware, etc to be FLOSS. Pragmatically, I won't reject a platform that is "less bad" than the amd64 I'd get from the store. Thank you for the good overview! > For example, the RPi devices start the VideoCore GPU first, > proprietary firmware then starts the ARM cores, then starts the ARM > boot process. Oh. So less good than I expected. > On mobile devices, look at PinePhone, Librem 5 or MNT Pocket Reform, > other devices have less mainline Linux support or worse freedom > issues. Mobile... let's say I consider this a different subject, sadly. we've been having different projects for a long time (I remember OpenMoko / GTA0x, also some early Compaq PDAs??) but IMO nothing I can use in daily life. I have a Librem 5, I ordered it... I think in 2017. I don't consider it usable for daily life, at least "out of the box + install available OS upgrades". > On laptops, probably the Apple ARM devices are the fastest, but > mainline Linux isn't yet suitable but is gaining ground quickly. I > think there might be some blobs during the boot or something and the > different page size for Apple ARM devices might be a challenge. Yes, I've been excited about it since they started; recently I took a look at https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Apple-Silicon they say "somewhere between x86 PCs and a libre-first system like the Talos II in terms of freedom to replace firmware and boot components; while a number of blobs are required in order to boot the system, none of those have the ability to take over the OS or compromise it post-boot", but also: * Brick recovery / total system flash (DFU) requires phoning home Which I understand an Apple account, tying the hardware to the Apple account, and Apple's permission to do a "total system flash". Err... feels like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire? > Otherwise Lenovo and other vendors have some ARM laptops. Oh, I'll try to find them. > Or there is the PineBook or MNT Reform for more esoteric devices. The PineBook shop page explicitly says "don't order if you are looking for a substitute for your x86 laptop" :-| >> I don't particularly want to get deep into being a porter > Personally I think users of every non-amd64 port should consider > doing porting work to keep their ports viable, since your personal > package set might not be on the radar of vendors like ARM or other > users. "Some work", like submitting patches to fix that-or-that package for the architecture, yes, that's part of FLOSS developer / enthusiast life, and I'd probably enjoy the work. Even running a buildd, if that's what lacking. But I don't want it to be the majority of my "free software time" either. And I need a machine that works to do the work, obviously.
