I'm with Jørn! Great ideas, all. Certainly feeling the pain of modules changing size and having to constantly scroll up and down. Cheers, Bruce Williams ------------------------------ Mobile: +61 41 250 6349
audio2u.com brucewilliamsphotography.com shuttersincpodcast.com sinelanguagepodcast.com e-mail <stu...@audio2u.com> | Twitter <http://twitter.com/@audio2u> | LinkedIn <http://au.linkedin.com/pub/bruce-williams/1/318/489> | Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/audio2u> | Soundcloud <http://www.soundcloud.com/audio2u> | Quora <https://www.quora.com/profile/Bruce-Williams-5> ------------------------------ On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 7:07 PM Jørn Villesen Christensen < darktable-...@mettle.dk> wrote: > Hi, > > > An alternative suggestion (as I have also found the module list a bit... > difficult to work with sometimes :-D ). I have often wished for a search > box, so here is an idea; not thought through, but meant as inspiration: > > How about one big list of modules, but with collapsible sections (and > thus not have the top buttons for bases, tones, colours, etc.). > > At the top of the list, there would be a search bar that would let you > easily filter on > - name of module > - tags associated (from the developers) with the module, such as > bases, colours, enhancements... > > In the list, there would be two active foldable sections: > - Enabled modules. > - All modules. > > You can right click on the list to > - Create a new (nameable) section. > - Order the sections (maybe All Modules should stay at the bottom, > Enabled module should stay at top). > - Add / Remove modules to/from the custom sections. > - Add a colour marker to the custom sections. When the modules are > displayed in the Enabled Modules list, they would be colour coded with > that colour, or have a colour marker (dot). > > Perhaps the order of the modules (in the All Modules and Enabled Modules > sections) could be selectable to > - Sorted alphabetically > - Sorted according to path in the pipeline. > > > In addition to that, I do not quite like way that modules unfolds under > it's name in the list. I think I would prefer a list of modules (as I > described above :) ) and clicking on each module, would open it up in a > separate Module Settings area. > > Reason: Sometimes when modules have (parametric and drawn) masks they > become tall and thus, when open, requires me to scroll excessively (?) > when going up/down the list, searching for something. When clicking on > another module (thus triggering closing and opening of modules) the > change in horizontal position of the list have sometimes also annoyed > me. Having the list and the module settings separate, keeps the list > more steady, compact, and thus I believe I can maintain a better overview. > > BR > Jørn > > > > > On 08/10/18 06:59, Dominik Markiewicz wrote: > > Hi, > > I've also my workflow, but it's a bit different then yours (crop is one > > of basic corrections for me, I almost never do noise removal as a one of > > first steps). I'm not a big fan of arbitrary change here. Agree with > > Jochen that custom tabs could be quite nice. > > > > To achieve something similar I just enable modules, add them as > > `favorite` and save this as a preset. Then add shortcuts for each of > > presets and I can easily switch between my groups of modules. > > > > Regards, > > Dominik > > > > pon., 8 paź 2018 o 06:42 Jochen Keil <jochen.k...@gmail.com > > <mailto:jochen.k...@gmail.com>> napisał(a): > > > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 5:39 AM Aurélien Pierre > > <rese...@aurelienpierre.com <mailto:rese...@aurelienpierre.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > The real question here is : could you get past the change and > > benefit from it ? > > > > > > I'm biased here, since I developed repetitive strain injury in > > the wrist at the early age of 23. So I'm basically trying to improve > > the efficiency of the workflow by decreasing as much as possible the > > number of user interactions on each picture, especially the mouse > > interactions. > > > > > > If it's only for cropping, it can be fixed. At the end, I think > > it really depends on how many hours you spend each week on > > darktable. Because editing a whole wedding is definitely not the > > same as editing a bunch of holidays pictures, so I guess every user > > will have a different sensibility to workflow matters and the > > occasionnal users will mostly care about the overhead of the > > refactoring (having to learn things again) while the regular users > > will see it as a long-term investment. > > > > So, how about custom tabs, that can be named freely and where users > > can add and arrange modules to their liking? > > > > The existing arrangement could be shipped as a preset, and other > > presets could be added easily. > > > > Make it configurable instead of trying to figure out what's right for > > everyone (hint: won't happen) > > > > Cheers, > > > > Jochen > > > > > > > Le 07/10/2018 à 23:02, Jason Polak a écrit : > > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > I can certainly see the logic of your idea. I definitely prefer > the > > > current setup, if only because that's what I started with. I > > think the > > > only way to see if this is a good idea is to poll users because I > am > > > sure there are some that would like your way and some that prefer > the > > > current way. > > > > > > I do have a specific criticism about your approach, though. I > think > > > cropping should come early in the editing process. I care much > more > > > about adjusting the general exposure and crop (composition) > before I > > > could even think about lens correction or noise reduction. This is > > > doubly so because I take a multi-pass view on editing. I first do > > some > > > basic edits of exposure, cropping, and tone curve adjustments to > the > > > shots I think are half-decent, and then promote the best ones to > the > > > next star level. Only with the highest star rating do I even > consider > > > spending time on noise reduction and lens correction as there is > not > > > much point on noise reduction in the bad images. > > > > > > Personally, I have found after a couple months it's easy to > remember > > > where all the modules are and changing it would only make it > > worse for me. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > On 2018-10-07 09:06 PM, Aurélien Pierre wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone ! > > > > > > I would like to propose a lifting for the UI in the darkroom. > > > > > > *Problem** > > > * > > > > > > Currently, the modules are separated in 5 tabs : > > > > > > * base > > > * tones > > > * colors > > > * enhancements > > > * effects > > > > > > But : > > > > > > * some modules in the color group affect the tones as well > > (color > > > zones, color balance) > > > * some modules in the tone group affect the colors as well > > (tone > > > curves) > > > * what is a "basic" module is rather arbitrary (basic == > > low-level > > > signal processing | traditionnal all-purpose features | > > simple > > > general settings ?) > > > * some modules do basically the same thing (local contrast & > > > equalizer, sharpen & high-pass filter, tonecurve & > basecurve) > > > and yet you find them in different tabs > > > > > > *Workflow** > > > * > > > > > > Over 7-8 years using dt, I have converged (and advocated) to the > > > following systematic workflow : > > > > > > /Step 1 : clean and neutralize the picture/ > > > > > > 1. normalize the white balance > > > 2. normalize the exposure to fit the histogram > > > 3. normalize the contrast and tonemap > > > 4. clean the noise > > > 5. correct the lens > > > 6. recover the saturated highlights > > > 7. apply a color profile and LUT > > > > > > At the end of this step, the image should look as close as > > possible > > > to the reality. This step is only aimed at correcting the > input > > > signal to revert the flaws of the sensor technology > > > > > > /Step 2 : tone the picture/ > > > > > > 1. adjust the local and global contrast to be visually > > pleasing and > > > fit the photographer's intentions > > > 2. adjust the lightness > > > > > > This step is the first "artistic" step and is more efficient > > if the > > > image has been cleaned before. But this uses the colorbalance > > to fit > > > the gamma. > > > > > > /Step 3 : grade the picture/ > > > > > > 1. adjust the hue to set the atmosphere > > > 2. adjust the saturation to get natural colors > > > 3. remap some colors to get better skin or sky tones > > > > > > This step is exactly what is done in video post-production. > > > > > > /Step 4 : enhance the picture/ > > > > > > 1. crop > > > 2. fix the rotation and the perspective > > > 3. fix the sharpness (sharpening, high-pass) > > > 4. correct the skin, spots, stains, sensor dust, etc. (spots > and > > > retouch) > > > 5. correct the shapes (liquify) > > > 6. add filters (vignette, frame, watermark). > > > > > > This step is more or less what you would do in pixels editors > > (Gimp, > > > Photoshop). > > > > > > *Proposal* > > > > > > I would like to refactor the UI in 4 tabs : > > > > > > 1. *correction :* for all the signal-processing and purely > technical > > > modules (mostly, the first in the pixelpipe, working in > > > camera-relative RGB) : > > > * *sensor patterns handling :* > > > o scalepixels > > > o rotatepixels > > > o demosaic > > > o flip > > > o rawprepare > > > * *color correction handling :* > > > o invert > > > o temperature > > > o colorout > > > o colorin > > > o colorchecker > > > * *dynamic range handling:* > > > o exposure > > > o clipping > > > o colorreconstruction > > > o shadhi > > > o highlights > > > o profile_gamma > > > o tonemap > > > o graduatednd > > > o dither > > > * *optics handling :* > > > o defringe > > > o hazeremoval > > > o lens > > > o cacorrect > > > * *noise handling :* > > > o bilateral > > > o nlmeans > > > o denoiseprofile > > > o rawdenoise > > > o hotpixels > > > 2. *tones**: *for creative modules affecting lightness and > contrast > > > * *global contrast :* > > > o tonecurves > > > o basecurves > > > o colisa > > > o levels > > > * *tone-mapping :* > > > o zonesystem > > > o global tonemap > > > o relight > > > * *local contrast :* > > > o atrous > > > o clahe > > > o equalizer (legacy) > > > 3. *colors :* for creative modules affecting lightness and > contrast > > > * *RGB :* > > > o colorbalance > > > o channelmixer > > > * *HSL :* > > > o colorzones > > > o splittoning > > > * *Lab* : > > > o colorcontrast > > > o colorcorrection > > > * *color-mapping :* > > > o colormapping > > > o colortransfer > > > o lowlight > > > o colorize > > > * *saturation* : > > > o vibrance > > > o velvia > > > o monochrome > > > 4. *enhancements :* for creative filters and pixel alteration > > modules > > > * *sharpness* : > > > o sharpen > > > o highpass > > > * *shoftness* : > > > o bloom > > > o lowpass > > > * *inpainting* : > > > o spots > > > o retouch > > > * *structure deformation :* > > > o crop and rotate (what's its IOP name ?) > > > o liquify > > > o ashift > > > * *creative* : > > > o watermark > > > o borders > > > o grain > > > o vignette > > > > > > *Benefits* > > > > > > I think that would draw a path, mostly one-directional, to follow > > during > > > edits : every tab is a step, you go into the next tab only when > > you are > > > finished with the previous one. It would result in less clicking > and > > > browsing and more guidance for new users. It would draw less > > confusion > > > as well regarding why some modules of similar functionnality are > put > > > away in separate tabs. > > > > > > Thanks for reading ! What do you think ? > > > > > > Aurélien. > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > > > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > <mailto:darktable-dev%2bunsubscr...@lists.darktable.org> > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > darktable developer mailing list > > > to unsubscribe send a mail to > > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > <mailto:darktable-dev%2bunsubscr...@lists.darktable.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > <mailto:darktable-dev%2bunsubscr...@lists.darktable.org> > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > darktable developer mailing list > > to unsubscribe send a mail to > > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > <mailto:darktable-dev%2bunsubscr...@lists.darktable.org> > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Dominik Markiewicz > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to > > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > > -- > www.talldanestale.dk > ___________________________________________________________________________ > darktable developer mailing list > to unsubscribe send a mail to > darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org > > ___________________________________________________________________________ darktable developer mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-dev+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
