I think you missed a 2.5 which is to use the information in DOM objects to
perform useful work.
On Wed, May 21, 2025, 1:04 PM Archie Cobbs <archie.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 11:30 AM Paul Sandoz <paul.san...@oracle.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I consider this a “known unknown” (in the words of Mr. Rumsfeld). We
>> would need to explore this area throughly, which includes the
>> interconnection with Serialization 2.0, before we really know what we can
>> and should do in the near and long term. That’s a significant effort, and I
>> would like to separate it out from the non-trivial effort to first get a
>> rather modest API over the line.
>
>
> I think the discussions about object mapping and serialization are
> important and super interesting, but as Paul points out, not really an
> immediate concern wrt. this proposal.
>
> In trying to understand this discussion, there are so many different
> concepts stirred up it's hard to keep track. It was helpful for me to go
> through the exercise of trying to partition the discussion space. Below is
> my feeble attempt at that...
>
> Side note: for better or worse, there are lots of parallels here with XML,
> so I expect the solutions to parallel the XML solutions, for many of the
> same reasons. We should also avoid parallelling the mistakes (e.g.,
> including too much functionality in the JDK which gets stale over time).
>
> Q1: What is JSON? Just like XML, it's a specification for structured
> documents. By "structured" we mean the syntax implies a nested tree-like
> structure (by "document" we mean "file" or "streams of bytes").
>
> Q2: What do people want to do with JSON?
>
> 1. Model a JSON document as Java objects in memory (using a "document
> object model" or DOM). Analogy: org.w3c.dom
>
> 2. Convert JSON DOM objects (see #1) to/from JSON documents. Analogy:
> {javax,jakarta}.xml.{parsers,transform}
>
> 3. Transform JSON documents. Analogy {javax,jakarta}.xml.transform
>
> 4. Read/write normal Java objects to/from JSON ("object mapping").
> Analogy: {javax,jakarta}.xml.bind (JAXB), JiBX
>
> 5. Read/write normal Java objects, where JSON is one possible encoding
> ("serialization 2.0"). Analogy: java.beans.XMLEncoder (!?)
>
> To me these are mostly separate problems whose solutions can be solved
> separately, each building on the previous (analogous to what was done with
> XML).
>
> So what problem is this new API trying to solve? Just #1 and #2.
>
> Of course, you probably want to use the solutions to problem 1 and 2 in
> your solution to problems 3, 4, and 5.
>
> But let's respect the ordering here. In solving problems 1 and 2, we
> should focus on those problems only. The solution to problems 1 and 2, if
> done well, will automatically be a good foundation for solving problems 3,
> 4, and 5, etc.
>
> -Archie
>
> P.S. I'm interested in "serialization 2.0" too - and that discussion must
> be happening somewhere else... where?
>
> --
> Archie L. Cobbs
>
