On 19/08/2012 20:17, Michael Williams wrote:
Just out of curiosity, any idea how many people it takes to run KGS?
My knowledge of the answer is limited by my understanding of the question.
There is 'wms', who does _all_ the coding. But he hasn't done any
coding for months. His involvement is needed when there is a crash, and
the server needs rebooting. We are hoping that he will soon fix the
missing stone-click problem.
Then there are admins, of three levels, with different degrees of power.
If we all stopped acting, what would happen?
The trolls and other disruptive elements would get out of control,
making KGS a fairly unpleasant place to be. But nothing would actually
stop working.
No new tournaments would get set up.
No new rooms would get approved.
No-one would be able to upload a new picture; new users would have no
pictures.
Those (like Dinerchtein and Guo Juan) who are paid to give lectures
on KGS would find that there was no-one to announce the start of their
lectures, or to deal with hecklers.
And there is the server-provider. It continues to provide its standard
service, as long as its fees are paid.
So, KGS could get by with wms, and three admins all working eight-hour
shifts. I would certainly not be willing to be there eight hours a day
myself, but there are some admins who appear to do that.
Nick
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Nick Wedd <[email protected]> wrote:
On 19/08/2012 18:04, Erik van der Werf wrote:
I saw Nick's email, but booting is not the same as banning. An actual
ban is an implicit acknowledgement of a flaw in the kgs scoring
protocol. Just thought it might be interesting to hear some details
(especially if and how it was fixed).
Anyway, all this seems rather strange. Bots only need one resumption.
After that all remaining stones are assumed to be alive by rule, so
there's no need to query the bot again for anything. The game can simply
end without any need for an admin to act. One could make this a bit more
flexible by increasing the max number of resumptions, but the principle
remains the same; there really shouldn't be a need for an admin to get
involved to get a game to end.
I don't have access to exactly what happened. It isn't preserved in the SGF
record. And with regard to the recent thread on a possible replacement for
SGF, this is the new feature that I would most value: a way of preserving in
the game record what claims of status the two players have made.
A (slightly) better way for KGS to have dealt with this problem would have
been for the admin to have kicked the misbehaving bot, rather than booting
it. A "kick" is instantaneous: a kicked user can reconnect immediately,
though in my experience it usually takes bots exactly five minutes, a delay
that may be intrinsic to the kgsGtp client. A booted user, however, cannot
reconnect until the duration of the boot, as specified by the admin, has
expired. The minimum duration, as applied in this case, is one hour.
However, the admin involved in this incident was a plain, or "silver-star",
admin. He had the power to boot, but not to kick. Only a "senior" or
"gold-star" admin can administer a kick. The reasons for this distinction
are lost in the mists of KGS history.
Nick
Erik
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Michael Williams
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
See original email from Nick:
"Yesterday, a KGS game between Blubbel 3d and AyaBot4 2k, SGF file
below, ended with an unusual kind of seki. AyaBot4 marked its
opponent's stones in the seki as dead, and was eventually booted
by an admin for mis-marking stones (as a way of getting the game
to end). As all eleven AyaBots use the same IP address, they all
got booted - and an hour later, all simultaneously tried to log in
again."
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Erik van der Werf
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:06 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>> I understood why I and bots were banned for a while.
>
>
> Oh, interesting, did this lead to a kgs ban? Why exactly was that?
>
> Erik
>
>
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