I had the same impression... Perhaps they are still far away from delivering a formal proof, but strong bots should now be very close to unbeatable on 7x7.
Erik On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:01 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > I think most strong programs has been unbeatable on 7x7 for a long time. Any > evidence on the contrary? > > -Magnus > > > Quoting Aja <[email protected]>: > >> Sorry it might be my misunderstanding. Maybe what Olivier meant is >> "defeat human champion" like DeepBlue but not "solve", such as what he >> said here: >> >> >> http://teytaud.over-blog.com/article-mogotw-wins-the-first-ever-9x9-game-against-a-top-pro-as-black-38407487.html >> We now should win on a complete game like 4 out of 7 games and the job >> would be completly done for 9x9 Go :-) >> >> Mogo is clearly on the way to solve 9x9 even 7x7. It is worth >> mentioning that Mogo defeated all the pros in 7x7 games in FUZZ-IEEE >> 2011. >> >> Aja >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Álvaro Begué" <[email protected]> >> To: "Aja" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] 19x19 opening books >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Aja <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> For Zen and CrazyStone, they might not be interested on 9x9, because >>> 19x19 >>> is their arena. Mogo is maybe the best candidate. In the TAAI >>> conference last year in Taiwan, Olivier stated that Mogo will solve (or >>> weakly solve?) 9x9 by winning 4 out of 7 games against some top >>> professional >>> player. >>> >>> Aja >> >> Ein? That's not what solving a game means. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solved_game >> >> Ąlvaro. >> >> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Brian Sheppard >>> To: [email protected] ; 'Aja' >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 12:01 AM >>> Subject: RE: [Computer-go] 19x19 opening books >>> >>>> I think 9x9 go, even though compared to chess in complexity, is still >>>> more >>>> complex than chess and that the book will have a little less impact, >>>> although still a lot. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> My projection is the opposite: I think that 9x9 will be "played out" >>> within >>> 5 years. Not weakly solved, exactly, but close to it. Zen and CrazyStone >>> have the ability to start on that project already. >>> >>> >>> >>> My impression is that the opening books are routinely worth a few hundred >>> rating points in 9x9 CGOS. >>> >>> >>> >>> I would cite Valkyria, which has a version that is playing near the top >>> of >>> the CGOS ladder most of the time. A comparable version was playing ~200 >>> rating points within the last year, and I suspect that the opening book >>> knowledge that comes from its long-term memory is the dominant >>> contributor. >>> >>> >>> >>> I also cite the Little Golem server, which is dominated by programs that >>> have opening books. >>> >>> >>> >>> Based on the work of Mogo and Valkyria, I suspect that if you take a >>> pretty >>> good player and create a feedback system then you get a great opening >>> book. >>> With an effective branching factor of maybe 2 to 3, you can get pretty >>> far >>> into the game. >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Computer-go mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
