blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white
!important; } According to the paper, AlphaGo did not use an opening book at
all, in the version which played Fan Hui.
Hypothetically, they could have grafted one on. I read a report that the first
move in game 2 vs. Lee Sedol took only seconds. On the other hand, it's first
move in game 1 took a longer while. We can only speculate.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
On Thursday, March 10, 2016, 12:31 PM, uurtamo . <uurt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quick question - how, mechanically, is the opening being handled by alpha go
and other recent very strong programs? Giant hand-entered or game-learned
joseki books?
Thanks,
steve
On Mar 10, 2016 12:23 PM, "Thomas Wolf" <tw...@brocku.ca> wrote:
My 2 cent:
Recent strong computer programs never loose by a few points. They are either
crashed before the end game starts (because when being clearly behind they play
more
desperate and weaker moves because they mainly get negative feadback from
their search with mostly loosing branches and risky play gives them the only
winning sequences in their search) or they win by resignation or win
by a few points.
In other words, if a human player playing AlphaGo does not have a large
advantage already in the middle game, then AlphaGo will win whether it looks
like it or not (even to a 9p player like Michael Redmond was surprised
last night about the sudden gain of a number of points by AlphaGo in the
center in the end game: 4:42:10, 4:43:00, 4:43:28 in the video
https://gogameguru.com/alphago-2/)
In the middle and end game the reduced number of possible moves and the
precise and fast counting ability of computer programs are superior. In the
game commentary of the 1st game it was mentioned that Lee Sedol considers the
opening not to be his strongest part of the game. But with AlphaGo playing
top pro level even in the opening, a large advantage after the middle game
might simply be impossible to reach for a human.
About finding weakness:
In the absense of games of AlphaGo to study it might be interesting to get a
general idea by checking out the games where 7d Zen lost on KGS
recently.
Thomas
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, wing wrote:
One question is whether Lee Sedol knows about these weaknesses.
Another question is whether he will exploit those weaknesses.
Lee has a very simple style of play that seems less ko-oriented
than other players, and this may play into the hands of Alpha.
Michael Wing
I was surprised the Lee Sedol didn't take the game a bit further to
probe AlphaGo and see how it responded to [...complex kos, complex ko
fights, complex sekis, complex semeais, ..., multiple connection
problems, complex life and death problems] as ammunition for his next
game. I think he was so astonished at being put into a losing
position, he wasn't mentally prepared to put himself in a student's
role again, especially to an AI...which had clearly played much weaker
games just 6 months ago. I'm hopeful Lee Sedol's team has been some
meta-strategy sessions where, if he finds himself in a losing position
in game two, he turns it into exploring a set of experiments to tease
out some of the weaknesses to be better exploited in the remaining
games.
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de> wrote:
> On 10.03.2016 00:45, Hideki Kato wrote:
> > > such as solving complex semeai's and double-ko's, aren't solved yet.
> > To find out Alphago's weaknesses, there can be, in particular,
> > - this match
> - careful analysis of its games
> - Alphago playing on artificial problem positions incl. complex kos, >
>complex ko fights, complex sekis, complex semeais, complex endgames, >
>multiple connection problems, complex life and death problems (such as > Igo
>Hatsu Yoron 120) etc., and then theoretical analysis of such play
> - semantic verification of the program code and interface
> - theoretical study of the used theory and the generated dynamic data >
>(structures)
> > --
> robert jasiek
> _______________________________________________
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go [1]
Links:
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