Quick question - how, mechanically, is the opening being handled by alpha go and other recent very strong programs? Giant hand-entered or game-learned joseki books?
Thanks, steve On Mar 10, 2016 12:23 PM, "Thomas Wolf" <tw...@brocku.ca> wrote: > My 2 cent: > > Recent strong computer programs never loose by a few points. They are > either > crashed before the end game starts (because when being clearly behind they > play more > desperate and weaker moves because they mainly get negative feadback from > their search with mostly loosing branches and risky play gives them the > only > winning sequences in their search) or they win by resignation or win > by a few points. > > In other words, if a human player playing AlphaGo does not have a large > advantage already in the middle game, then AlphaGo will win whether it > looks > like it or not (even to a 9p player like Michael Redmond was surprised > last night about the sudden gain of a number of points by AlphaGo in the > center in the end game: 4:42:10, 4:43:00, 4:43:28 in the video > https://gogameguru.com/alphago-2/) > > In the middle and end game the reduced number of possible moves and the > precise and fast counting ability of computer programs are superior. In > the > game commentary of the 1st game it was mentioned that Lee Sedol considers > the > opening not to be his strongest part of the game. But with AlphaGo playing > top pro level even in the opening, a large advantage after the middle game > might simply be impossible to reach for a human. > > About finding weakness: > In the absense of games of AlphaGo to study it might be interesting to get > a general idea by checking out the games where 7d Zen lost on KGS > recently. > > Thomas > > On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, wing wrote: > > One question is whether Lee Sedol knows about these weaknesses. >> Another question is whether he will exploit those weaknesses. >> Lee has a very simple style of play that seems less ko-oriented >> than other players, and this may play into the hands of Alpha. >> >> Michael Wing >> >> I was surprised the Lee Sedol didn't take the game a bit further to >>> probe AlphaGo and see how it responded to [...complex kos, complex ko >>> fights, complex sekis, complex semeais, ..., multiple connection >>> problems, complex life and death problems] as ammunition for his next >>> game. I think he was so astonished at being put into a losing >>> position, he wasn't mentally prepared to put himself in a student's >>> role again, especially to an AI...which had clearly played much weaker >>> games just 6 months ago. I'm hopeful Lee Sedol's team has been some >>> meta-strategy sessions where, if he finds himself in a losing position >>> in game two, he turns it into exploring a set of experiments to tease >>> out some of the weaknesses to be better exploited in the remaining >>> games. >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de> wrote: >>> >>> > On 10.03.2016 00:45, Hideki Kato wrote: >>> > > > such as solving complex semeai's and double-ko's, aren't solved >>> yet. >>> > > To find out Alphago's weaknesses, there can be, in particular, >>> > > - this match >>> > - careful analysis of its games >>> > - Alphago playing on artificial problem positions incl. complex kos, >>> > complex ko fights, complex sekis, complex semeais, complex endgames, > >>> multiple connection problems, complex life and death problems (such as > >>> Igo Hatsu Yoron 120) etc., and then theoretical analysis of such play >>> > - semantic verification of the program code and interface >>> > - theoretical study of the used theory and the generated dynamic data >>> > (structures) >>> > > -- >>> > robert jasiek >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Computer-go mailing list >>> > Computer-go@computer-go.org >>> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go [1] >>> >>> >>> >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1] http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> Computer-go@computer-go.org >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Computer-go mailing list >> Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >
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