On Aug 12, 2008, at 11:18 AM, steve uurtamo wrote:
On 8/12/08, Ian Osgood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Don Dailey wrote:
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 08:43 +0200, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
I don't like opening books. They are a liability when the rest
of the
program is still improving so quickly.
I had one that worked effectively, but had to be redone if the
program
improved substantially, so it was a program. I essentially deep-
search
each new position encountered. So each game played presented a
new book
position to learn which I did off-line. It even had variety - I
didn't
want it too predictable so I deep searched N times, and used the
moves
in the same ratio they were chosen. Usually only 1 or 2 moves get
played.
This is a different kind of opening book than I'm thinking of.
You are both
talking about cached computation, whereas I consider an opening
book as
codified theory and wisdom gained over the entire history of the game
(semeais and joseki). How could adding established semeai and joseki
patterns (probably for early move selection and bias) to a program
make it
weaker? If anything, the global view of full-board MCTS has the
potential
to make better use of semeai and joseki patterns than the classical
shallow-search programs.
Self-learned books were also abandoned in chess. Hand tuned books
are labor
intensive, often requiring a separate team member to create them,
but the
best chess programs all have them.
Ian
what happens when the opponent deviates from joseki?
knowing how to punish joseki mistakes can be very,
very tricky.
also knowing which joseki to use where is very, very
sophisticated. the wrong joseki can be worse globally
than a non-joseki move.
s.
The punishing moves, if tricky, would naturally be added to the
library. I was hoping that the global search would take care of
choosing the appropriate semeais/josekis for the overall board
situation. I realize that this is not as easy to implement as the
canned opening moves of a chess program, but the value of the system
is the same: better opening play and more thinking time for the
remaining moves.
I hope that David Fotland can chime in here on value of joseki
libraries on program strength.
Also, which existing classical program is considered the best semeai
player?
Ian
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