On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Peter Duniho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
As I said, no one ever suffered from having too many code samples.
Again, I disagree. We are seeing an ever-increasing number of people
on this list who don't care about learning Cocoa, they just want to
piece together bits of code. As I mentioned previously, I believe that
this will lead to a decrease in the quality of software.
Yes, so you've said. This is yet another topic on which we will
simply have to agree to disagree.
As the Mac already has software, some of that software is bad
software. The quality of the development environment isn't going to
affect the relative proportion very much. While it's true that
increasing the quantity of software overall will also increase the
quantity of bad software, it's a fallacy to think that high barriers
in the programming environment preferentially keep only the bad
programmers out.
Inasmuch as anyone has an option as to what platform they will
support -- and many of us do -- high barriers discourage careful
programmers as much as they discourage bad programmers.
The only reason you are seeing "an ever-increasing number of
people...who just want to piece together bits of code" is because
there's an increasing number of people interested in Cocoa. These
people exist everywhere, and they apply the same thought to every
platform. They will be doing this in Cocoa whether or not the
documentation is better.
Heck, if anything, I'd think that the fact that they are here _now_,
doing exactly what you don't want them to do, would be proof enough
that minimalist documentation isn't an effective barrier to their
entry. Your claim flies in the face of reality.
Well, I refer you back to my previous statement: the English
language only
gets you so far. Code is the one unambiguous, universally-understood
conveyance of a point regarding code.
Yes, it's most often beneficial to have text that elaborates on
the code.
In reality, the two combined provide the best illustration. But
if I have
to choose between only one or the other, I will go with a correct
code
example every time.
That's because you don't really believe in conceptual documentation.
Please. Whatever else you do or say, do NOT presume to tell me what
I do or do not believe in. Your statement is false and offensively
arrogant.
I believe it's far too easy to miss the wood for the trees when you're
trying to learn several design patterns at once just by looking at
code.
And what when you have already learned "several design patterns" and
have reached a point where you just want to get some particular
aspect of the implementation working? Why should you have to then
sift through all of those conceptual documents you've already read,
to try to find the one little nugget that illustrates the piece you
need?
Honestly, I'm surprised to have to reiterate this point. It's a
common
enough problem in every communications medium I'm participated in,
and it's
a constant refrain in forums such as this one to ask people asking
questions
to provide clear, concise code examples rather than just trying to
explain
in English what their problem is. I'd have thought this point was
a given.
Often on this list I see people answering very specific questions with
"What are you actually looking to do with this? There may be a better
approach."
So what? That's not relevant at all to the point I'm making, never
mind does it refute it.
This is the very opposite of the "snippets illustrate best"
school of thought, and the fact that many of this list's members take
a holistic approach is one of the most valuable things about it.
You are completely missing the point. Your love of the "holistic
approach" is making you blind to the question of other aspects of
documentation. Not every documentation issue is involved with the
question of introducing someone to the topic.
I think it's wonderful that you've been able to completely memorize
every aspect of the Cocoa framework and have no need to ever see
_any_ examples of how to accomplish _any_ specific task in Cocoa.
But you're an anomaly. Even experts, most of them anyway, need to
look things up once in awhile. Making them go back and review the
introductory texts every time just to find what they're looking for
is just silly.
Pete
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