You’re welcome! It’s an easy way to record other people’s ideas and share. I took a google stroll in the 25-2 and can see it was introduced not long before before and it is likely built in a very similar way to windstar, meaning a solid hull, a ‘spider’ (shop made structural grid bonded to the hull) and the liner fastened to that with blobs of putty. In Windstar’s case the liner is ‘properly’ glassed to the hull only along the settee fronts, mostly running fore and aft, and outboard of the ends of the spider grid. So it’s structural to that extent. If the 25 doesn’t have a spider it certainly has some kind of glassed-in transverse structure around the keel, in addition to the bulkheads at the forward ends of the settees. I had a look at how the 25-2 is arranged and I see that it has a deck stepped mast, bulkheads directly below that, and that the first keel bolt is aft of that area, with much of the keel support structure necessarily beneath the table. I will assume that at least one of the keel bolts passes through the spider/ beam structure. At the risk of being Captain obvious now, It’s the hull skin itself and the transverse spider members fastened to it that stiffen the hull adjacent to the keel loading, so if something has failed, that’s it. Though forward of the keel, The bulkheads do their part, and I would assume there is a transverse spider beam or at least built up glasswork/tabbing along the base of the bulkheads. Look really really closely at the tabbing and wood along the bottom of the bulkheads below the mast, check failed tabbing, rot/wet wood, past repairs. Clean it and shine a bright light, you are as cracks might be hard to see. Look at the spider-grid where it attaches to the hull and focus on the joints and especially corners and notches where the grid is glassed in and the keel stresses concentrate. ( think about what might let go first in a really hard grounding) Look for blobs of putty where the liner is attached and see if any are cracked and if chips fallen out- an indication of flexing. Obviously if you see evidence of a prior repair, investigate. Good luck! Dave
Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 18, 2022, at 10:12 PM, Stephen Kidd <stephenk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Good idea, and it makes sense to check. I'm pretty certain nothing has been > tinkered with, given the consistent patina and materials throughout, but > we've had her all of 4 of her 42 years. > > The hull is indeed solid fiberglass with a cored deck. So at least it's not > the scariest of the scary. > > I've got to say thanks for the the Windstar blog! It's an incredible resource > and our go-to for getting a sense of how these boats fit together. > > >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 8:45 PM Dave S <syerd...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Another thought, and this may seem like a silly question - has the boat been >> modified in any way? Any structure removed? >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Dave S <syerd...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>> Curious. If the hull is solid glass or cored and sound I’d tackle a diy >>> repair without hesitation, provided you are handy and are either willing to >>> learn about the techniques and material involved or have a knowledgeable >>> friend who can help. There are many here who can help identify well >>> intentioned bad advice. >>> HOWEVER- is this hull balsa cored below the waterline? One very nasty >>> possible hypothesis is that the keel support structures- transverse >>> ‘floors’ (beams) and bulkheads are bonded to the inner skin of a failed >>> cored hull. This (I’d imagine) might cause what you are describing. >>> Now that I’ve scared you I’ll say I have no idea how the 25-2’s hull is >>> built, but this does fit the description. Even that could be fixed but it >>> might be an involved and complex job, again depending on how the boat is >>> built. >>> >>> Dave 33-2 windstar >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 7:32 PM, Stephen Kidd via CnC-List >>>>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I wanted to give an update on the keel wobble on our 25 MKII. It took a >>>> while for us to get our ducks and the weather in a row, but it gave us >>>> time to do a lot of reading and research following the leads provided >>>> through the list. As our next step in investigating the keel wobble, we >>>> tightened the bolts and checked the keel with the boat in slings. Torquing >>>> the bolts went smoothly using a torque wrench, torque multiplier and an >>>> extra deep socket. Before tightening, we backed them up a little, and they >>>> all budged with between 100 - 150 ft/lbs of torque on the wrench. We were >>>> able to torque the keel bolts to 350 ft/lbs, and there was no indication >>>> of the bolt spinning or washers digging into the glass. >>>> >>>> We then had the boat lifted in slings, and the keel continued to flex with >>>> a moderate push with a foot. At this point, I noticed that the flex wasn't >>>> between the keel and the hull (that was encouraging!), but it was the >>>> entire hull flexing. I then climbed aboard and asked the very >>>> accommodating marina manager to wiggle the keel, which he did with vigor. >>>> The entire bottom of the bilge visibly flexed. Interestingly to me, the >>>> keel bolts didn't appear to move relative to the rest of the hull, >>>> everything was in it together. The hull/keel joint actually seems pretty >>>> solid, so I am glad that we took this step before dropping the keel. The >>>> hull flexing is something we should have caught right away, but we looked >>>> right past it because we assumed it was the hull/keel joint. >>>> >>>> Even if the hull/keel joint is off the hook for the wobble, from past >>>> discussions on this list and elsewhere, I suspect this is not a good >>>> finding. We have seen cases where people have made significant and >>>> impressive structural repairs, many of which have been referenced here on >>>> the list, to increase rigidity. The both of us carefully inspected the >>>> bilge area for signs of cracking or separation, and we have not identified >>>> anything obvious (untrained eyes). Thus, we would not know what to fix >>>> were we to go that route. The marina manager is similarly at a loss. I'm >>>> also not comfortable not knowing why the hull is visibly flexing. At the >>>> same time, several sailors at the marina suggested that she's probably >>>> fine and we should just go sailing and keep an eye on it. As tempting as >>>> that is, that's beyond our comfort zone. >>>> >>>> So, that's the general outcome of the wobbly keel investigation. I do have >>>> a question: Is this a repair that a reasonable person would be able to >>>> take on? I'm not sure that person would be me, but I do not want to scrap >>>> a boat that someone could make good use of. Afterall, she has been an >>>> incredible boat for us and is undeniably an adorable 25' C&C. >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> Stephen
Please trim your messages before sending to the list. Thankx
