Hi Chris,
Your mast compression post issue is a slightly different version of what
many C&Cs of your vintage have experienced. My 35-1 has basically that
same construction to support the bottom of the mast: a stack of plywood
lightly encased in fiberglass that spans the bilge at the turn of the
bilge. The plywood rots and the mast, or in your case the compression
post, sinks. It's a common repair to cut out the old stuff and replace
it either with more wood, or in my case, with a combination of
fiberglass/resin layup and pre-cast fiberglass boards. Not terribly
complicated, just a PITA to get there, as you say space is limited.
The keel bolt issue seems a bit different. To be clear, when you say it
moves I presume that's four inches at the bottom of the keel? Have you
been able to have someone move it while you're inside observing the
keelbolts? Do they move at all? Have you tried tightening the keelbolts?
On my boat, there's a lot of wood between the surface you're seeing at
the bottom of the bilge and the joint where the keel meets the hull. I
can tell you that I had issues where that wood got soft and when I
tightened the keelbolts it crushed. That was quite a repair job.
I have to say I'm puzzled by the original construction: your "center
floor", the one with the grounding bolt, is what I would expect for all
of them, that the reinforcement would extend down into the bottom and
pick up the load from the keel bolts. It doesn't seem to provide too
much support up where it. Your idea of "boxes" seems good, to get
strength down to the bolts.
Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY
On 4/19/2020 9:43 PM, Chris Bennett via CnC-List wrote:
Hi Rob,
I do have pictures but do not know how best to post them to this forum
so I will upload them to my google drive. This is the shareable link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qEfA4WHGKMVUk6bKch9X4-hXn76AR46C
The issue I believe from examining the bilge area is that my C&C 24
has stiffeners (what would be floors in a wooden boat) that help
prevent the hull from flexing too much when the keel is put in stress
(say when beating to windward) and that the bonding of some of these
stiffeners to the hull may have failed. I see signs of this in three
of the 'floors'. The surveyor said that the issue is general hull
flexing, not any cracking or failure of the lead keel to fibreglass joint.
I named the pictures that you should (hopefully) be able to download
from the above link as descriptively as I could. I use the term floors
to refer to the transverse reinforcing areas. The floors at the
forward end and aft end of the bilge are solid 'boxes'that have no
issues. The other 3 floors (floors 2 to 4) from forward to aft are as
follows (see overview picture and detailed pics):
2) The mast step floor. The plywood appears to have sunken and partly
delaminated and pulled away from the sides. There is a resin and
fibreglass strap that runs over the plywood cross piece and outboard
at least 8 inches. The glass does not seem very thick on this one.
See the pictures that show a clear curve that has cracked the base of
the compression post casting. I shimmed this up last year but did not
address the real issue.
3) A U shaped center 'floor' that is basically a big strap of resin
and glass that runs down into the bilge and up the sides. The keel
bolt goes through this strap. The pictures show a crack on either side
where the strap attaches to the bilge base. Not sure how far the strap
runs outboard but at least 8 inches to where the hull liner cabin sole
is bonded to the hull. I cannot see how this would do much to stop the
hull from flexing
4) Another plywood crosspiece with resin and glass strap over it. This
strap appears to no longer be bonded correctly to the hull in the
pictures.
I am thinking of reinforcing floors 2 and 4 perhaps adding a cross
piece and tabbing this better underneath as well as encapsulating in
epoxy. Perhaps a box made from a top crosspiece with two ends that
resemble more traditional (deeper) floors would be better if you can
picture what I mean? I would replace the mast step fitting with a
plate and collar made of aluminum since the original fitting does not
appear to be available anymore - the compression post is 2 inches in
outer diameter roughly. I was also thinking about adding deeper floors
fore and aft of the center U shaped strap but concerned this might
introduce hard spots?
To do any of this I suspect I will have to remove the teak and holly
sole and cut out with a multi tool or grinder a portion of the
fibreglass sole so as to gain access to the outboard ends to allow for
suitably wide floors as well as making access much easier. The problem
with this approach is that this liner is bonded to the hull and
contributes to the overall strength so it would need to be replaced
carefully so as to restore this strength.
A further constraint is to leave access to the keel bolts for
tightening or replacement and to the bilge for cleaning.
Any suggestions and comments greatly appreciated!
Regards,
Chris
On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 at 17:26, Robert Abbott <robertabb...@eastlink.ca
<mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca>> wrote:
Chris,
Trying to understand exactly what you are describing without a
picture....are you saying the keel is tight to the keel box but
the keel box is cracked from the hull? If there is no 'smile' and
your keel moves 4" side to side, what else could it be? If I
understand correctly, that's a big problem....you could loose your
keel while sailing and that's a big problem.
The compression post depressed is another problem and needs to be
addressed for continued sailing.
Can it be fixed...many things can be fixed but how much time and
money are you willing to put into the boat.
I'd call the surveyor back and ask him his opinion on the cost of
a repair (if he would provide one, he might not, but he just might
be an honest guy and tell you what you are in for even if you
decide to do the repairs yourself).
Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.
On 4/19/2020 5:39 PM, Chris Bennett via CnC-List wrote:
Hi folks,
I own Drifter, a C&C 24 from 1985. A recent survey by a potential
buyer found that despite the keel being well attached (no 'smile'
or obvious issues with the sump to keel joint) the keel moves up
to 4 inches from side to side while the boat is hanging in the
slings. The surveyor attributed this to failed bonding of the
hull liner to the hull. He also noted that the compression post
step had subsided and the cast aluminum compression post base was
cracked on both sides.
I would like to repair the boat and was wondering if anyone else
has experienced and addressed these issues?
Thanks!
Chris Bennett
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_______________________________________________
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
_______________________________________________
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
