Hi Joe, Part of me feels the same way. I will never play on a pro football team, I still enjoy watching the superbowl. I accept the fact that I will probably never own or even sail on a foiling sailboat, still I see these America's Cup boats as engineering marvels and enjoy seeing the creative design and builder's craftsmanship in them.
Alex Thompson sailed more than 500 miles in 24 hrs with his foiling Open 60 in the open sea. He broke one foil but came in 2nd place in the round the world race, so these things are exotic but proven. I think we are living at a time when great achievements are being made with foiling boats and I wouldn't miss seeing history being made. It would be like not watching the lunar landing live. Chuck, Resolute, C&C 34R > On January 30, 2019 at 8:52 AM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > > Interesting perspective. > > This is *just me*, I well be a minority opinion, but the AC was not about > cutting edge sailing to me. The 12s and Js may well have been the newest > fastest things back in the 1920s, but by the time I was alive and watching it > was more like seeing the best drivers in the world racing MGs or something. > It was sailboat racing as it had been done for decades. Say kind of like the > Triple Crown, we all know cars are faster than horses but we still like to > see them race. > > So the foiling cats are fast and cool and demanding, but to me once New > Zealand pulled their BS way back when and we countered with the cat, the AC > was kind of done for me............ > > > Joe > > Coquina > > On 1/29/2019 8:45 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote: > > > > > > Joe; > > > > > > > > I do agree that the foiling cats were radically different than the > > conventional sailboats we are accustomed to. And the crew work and training > > is more demanding than on a monohull. The J class boats have hugely higher > > sheet loadings and hardware that is light years bigger than what we have on > > your 35 or my 38, but the boat itself is just bigger and not much faster. > > Whether a J class or a catamaran, the sailing is still pretty much the same > > as on one of our boats. > > > > > > > > Did you realize that Oracle was actually the faster boat in the AC > > finals in Bermuda? Her average top speed was a smidgen over 41 knots, while > > the Kiwi boat was between 40.5 and 41. Which is, on the whole, pretty cool > > since none of the races was run in over about 12 knots of wind. > > > > > > > > So why did Oracle lose? Certainly there were slight difference in > > the foils, the soft headsails, and the leg powered hydraulics of the Kiwis > > gave a lot more consistent power for foils and trimmers than the coffee > > grinders on Oracle. But from watching the races on the Jumbo Tron at the AC > > pavilion, I’m pretty much convinced the margin was crew practice and work > > load management. > > > > > > > > The skipper of Oracle was driving. He was calling tactics. He was > > trimming the foils. He had a really cool steering wheel designed by BMW to > > control all that, plus a suite of gauges and Heads-Up displays that would > > probably rival an F18 fighter/bomber. In one race Oracle lost because, when > > they tacked the boat, they went about 15’ outside the boundary of the race > > course and had to do a 360. (The promo stuff in the BMW display area talked > > about how the boat positon on the race course and other tactical data was > > updated like 1000 times per minute. How could you run outside the > > boundary?) In pretty much every race they fell off the foils once or twice > > while tacking and jibing. And every time they fell off the foils (and > > dropped to about 9 knots) the Kiwis picked up a couple of hundred yards > > before Oracle got back up to speed. Spithill was just flat too busy and had > > too many tasks to manage. > > > > > > > > The Kiwis almost never fell off the foils. The race commentators > > thought the bicycle powered hydraulics had something to do with it because > > trimming and changing foils was faster and perhaps had more reserve > > pressure in the accumulators. But the skipper of the Kiwi boat was calling > > tactics and trimming the foils. The helmsman was doing only that – driving. > > Someone else was trimming the main. When the helmsman ran to the cockpit on > > the other side of the boat a few seconds before each tack or jibe, the > > skipper held the wheel to keep the boat in a straight line until the > > helmsman was back in place. So I think superior crew work and coordination, > > and probably more practice during the LV Cup races, was the winning margin > > for the Kiwis. > > > > > > > > Pretty similar to the J Class or 12 meter boats – just about 4 or 5 > > times faster. > > > > > > > > Three of us on the list went out into the sound to watch the J > > Class races in Bermuda. And I’ll admit that it was probably my most > > favorite part of the trip. We are all familiar with the groaning of a > > loaded jib sheet when you are grinding in those last few inches. Well, on a > > J class the winch is about 4 feet tall and the sheet is an inch or more in > > diameter. And the groaning of the winch was loud enough the be heard from > > my boat 100 or more yards away. The J boats are romantic – majestic even – > > but one of them blew out a spinnaker just after rounding the windward mark > > we were near – and the spin that exploded probably cost $50 0r $60K. > > “Real” sailors can only fantasize about sailing one. Hull speed on my boat > > is a bit over 7 knots – on a J class about 40% more. Romantic as it is, J > > class or 12 meter racing is basically a very expensive, though sexy and > > more closely competitive, version of the beer can racing we all do. > > > > > > > > Now I don’t think I would go out and buy a foiling boat. There ARE > > options: a Moth, one of the mid-20’ foiling monohulls Benneteau announced > > it planned to build, an A Cat (think 40% scale AC catamaran, 20+ knots in > > 12 knots of wind, and a race ready used one can be had for about 20K), > > whatever the new maker calls the Gunboat G4 (though a Gunboat 55 or 60 > > might be cool if I ever win big in the lottery). Those boats are just too > > athletic for a fat 68 year old cruiser, and take too much practice and crew > > work for racing in the occasional charity regatta. As Charlie said, “To > > each his own”. > > > > > > > > The boats are all different, but the tactics, the teamwork, and the > > skills needed to be successful at sailing are pretty constant. > > > > > > > > Rick Brass > > > > Washington, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of > > Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM > > To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com ' > > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > Cc: Della Barba, Joe <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> > > mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov > > Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats > > > > > > > > Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely > > different universe. Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not > > resemble what we think of as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all > > the other reasons, the traditional AC race was between boats that were very > > close in speed. Absolutely superb tactics and boat handling were required > > to keep ahead of the other boat. It was pretty rare for there to be enough > > speed difference for a good crew to lose to an average one. 6.9 knots > > losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 knot boat is just one mistake > > away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can still crash but it isn’t at > > all the same. > > > > Joe > > > > Coquina > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. > > Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list > > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > >
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