We bought our C&C over the winter. We hadn't planned on buying, it just
happened our dream boat (33-2 cb) came up at a great price, so we jumped. We
still had to sell our Catalina 30, ideally between January and April when we
were scheduled for launch. I had studied the market and priced the boat at X.
The broker (Perry @ Swans in Pickering) advice was that we were asking too
little by half. I said we want a quick sale and he responded that it would
still sell quickly at his recommended price. Long story short, we priced it at
his recommended price and sold before April, below listing but still well above
what I thought we should ask. Swans is a Catalina and Dufour dealer. What I
took from the experience is going with a broker that knows the boat and the
market for that boat, is beneficial.
Cheers,DougCeltic Knot85 33-2 cb
On Sunday, November 27, 2016 8:28 AM, Dave S via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
To add to Chuck's thoughts:
A buyer's agent (or even a helpful broker) will be able to provide you with
information on asking and actual selling prices for broker-sold boats for the
model you are after. This is a huge help as there can be a large range as we
know (in 2013, it was around 30% for the models I was looking at)
As mentioned, many of the boats owned by those on this list are now out of the
broker market - too cheap - nonetheless, the broker can still make this info
available to you.
Even with a very high level of trust, every expectation you can dream of should
be stated in writing, to both the broker and the surveyor. (or the seller if
applicable) Good fences make good neighbours, and this is not an imposition, it
protects everyone and maintains friendships. For most items, clear, friendly,
communication in an email trail is fine.
Surveyors/surveys are highly variable, and will not be as thorough or
effective as you would like. I have read surveys while looking at boats that
missed obvious problems, bent rudder shaft, (2 C&C 34s) buckled topsides at
the chainplates...(several older boats with hydraulic backstay adjusters
fitted) Specific known issues should be researched by the buyer and
specifically referenced to the surveyor and broker - again, in writing.
Forums and lists like this are fantastic sources of info, and the list members
know more than surveyors, generally. (Examples would be banging kanazaki
transmissions, worn folding props, rod/wire rigging, keel stub/mast step issues
on 33-2, 35-3, 41, cracking keels in frozen parts of the world... - no doubt
there are many many others) It is rare indeed that a surveyor will be that
knowledgable or thorough with regard to a particular model. (unless he owned
one, as in Chuck's case) If I were remote- buying a boat that was worth any
sort of money I would make a point of inspecting it with the surveyor.
You can often get a survey from the seller. If available, it makes nice light
reading while you wait for your own. ;-)
Already mentioned - check the paperwork for the FOB point. This is where you
take title. Figure out what constitutes your acceptance of the boat's
condition, document all.
Already mentioned - hold back.
Chuck makes an interesting point - wariness about a price drop. For someone
who is handy, this might actually represent an opportunity. yards are
expensive to operate and charge a lot of money, (for anything) and any sailboat
can be hard to sell. Depends on the seller's frame of mind, the issue and
the labour involved. (I rebuilt windstar's keel stub/maststep as much as a
preventative measure as anything, and would not hesitate to buy a 33-2, 35iii,
or 41 with an issue identified, provided the price had been adjusted by the
C$20-30k a yard would ask for the same work.)
I think the "pipe dream" when buying is the overly optimistic assessment of
things like canvas, sails, upholstery/foam, prop, running rigging, galley
stove, "secondary" systems and wear-out items that are normally not carefully
inspected and can quickly add up to tens of thousands. (good bones are not
the whole story) A surveyor can't really help much with that.
Coffee's done...
Dave - 33-2 windstar
On Nov 23, 2016, at 12:59, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:
Buying a boat from a broker without a buyer’s agent is the same as buying a
house with no realtor representing you. And doing so from long distance,
stacks the deck even further against you. The seller’s agent is looking out
for the seller and themselves. Period. >> snip
To the topic of knowledgeable brokers and surveyors, I think that most brokers
tend to follow the money trail and focus their energy and expertise on what
will yield the greatest return for them and their company. Many yacht brokers
are passing up listings of 30-40 year old sailboats because demand is low, the
potential buyers are cheapskates (yes, that includes us!) and the time and
money it takes to list an old “fixer upper” may result in the broker being
upside down in recovering their costs. If they take on an older boat, they’d
prefer to list the 40 year old Hinckley or Morris Yacht that still sells for
over $100K, which means their commission actually amounts to some return for
the effort. This is why you see more and more cheap boats being represented by
“discount” online brokers like POP Yachts, where the virtual brokerage is
located in Florida and their “regional” sales agent collects photos from the
owner and shows the boat to clients. This person may have 50-100 boats listed
and may never have first-hand knowledge of any of them. From experience, the
regional guy is not usually a sailor and he may have inherited the listing from
a prior broker who may no longer be with the company.
When I purchased Half Magic last winter, I was fortunate that my surveyor,
Mike Collier from Marine Safety in Fairhaven, MA, is also a C&C Landfall 38
owner and was very excited to run a fine tooth comb over my purchase. I
scheduled the survey to be performed when I could be there too. Even so, we
surveyed in January with the boat out of the water and we missed a few
things.>> snijpI’ve also heard of some folks getting two surveys on a boat
purchase, one very thorough survey to be as informed as possible and the other
as a more “general” survey that can be submitted to an insurance company to
allow an older boat to be insured if there may some problems that the owner
wants to fix on his own but perhaps not right away.>>snipBe wary of boats that
have been listed for many months and are now listed at significantly reduced
price. Those are the boats that were initially priced well if they were in
good shape, but problems came up and the broker or owner didn’t want to go the
expense of fixing the problem. To think that you can fix those problems
cheaper than the original owner or a yard that is able to buy parts and labor
at wholesale, may be a bit of a pipedream.>> snip
Chuck GilchrestS/V Half Magic1983 35 Landfall
_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
