I bought and sold boats on the hard last year. I wouldn't accept a condition
that didn't expire until spring and I didn't ask the seller to. I protected
myself as buyer with a hold back as did the purchaser of my old boat. If your
seller agrees to the condition then great, however you may want to think think
of how much of a hold back will let you sleep at night.
Cheers,Doug
Celtic Knot85 33-2 cb
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Graham Young via
CnC-List<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
A lot of my experience has been similar to what John described above....
In my case, I spoke with the surveyor yesterday and he plans to try to get to
the boat this Sunday before the temps begin to freeze consistently. Initially,
I told him I would not be able to be there (although would prefer to be) given
that holiday travel would take me even further away from Port Dover than I
already live, but I'm thinking about altering my plans and making the long
drive to be there in person. He indicated that he would call if he encountered
anything that would lead him to recommend walking away from the boat and end
the survey at that point with a charge of half his fee.
The surveyor I hired also is an engine mechanic and includes an engine survey
as part of the pre-purchase survey, but he said he would not do it until the
Spring when the boat was in the water. The agreement I have includes a
satisfactory (to me) engine survey, but I halfway expect to be pressured to
forgo this to close the deal before Spring. We'll see....
Graham YoungS/V Spellbound1981 C&C 32 (on the hard and for sale)Cleveland, O.
On Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:04 AM, Persuasion37 via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Persuasion is not listed yet but in anyone is interested they can contacted me
off list. Latest survey spring of 2014. Cruiser not a racer. Well I've never
raced in the 10 years I've owned her.
Seriously one of these days I'll have to make a list of all the upgrades and
maintenance I've done.
MikePERSUASIONwww.persuasion37.com
C&C 37 K/CBLong Sault
On Nov 23, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
With all this discussion of boats for sale I would like to let the list know
that my 27-V 1986 is for sale on Long Island NY. Very nice boat. You can see
listing at http://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/61767I am looking to move up to a
larger boat 35+ to 41 feet so if anyone has one for sale let me know. Jerry J&J
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Phygital via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:
By the way... I dealt with bridge yachts in the last few weeks on my last
search.
Survey Failed (according to what I'm looking for), but I had a decent
experience. There's always the feeling of "did they know more"... some
experienced buyers see a problem (especially if structural), as a big
negotiation point. Brokers don't know off hand what the buyer is willing to
accept. It's an it of a crap shoot for them as well.
Owner got a quote from boatyard and asked the broker to see if we would still
be interested if repairs were done or deduct the amount from agreed price if I
chose to do it myself or another boat yard.
We declined, in part thinking resale, but mostly it was the thought of "is it
safe" that would always be in the admirals mind (you know who I mean)...
I slept well that night :).
You gotta feel good about your boat. A good friend and lister (Christian), told
me... when you buy the boat "It's Yours"... whatever you discover afterwards
"it's yours". Hard, but really great advice.
Nothing negative to say about BY. I'm still in touch and they now know I'm a
serious buyer and exactly what I want and questions I will ask. They are
prepared.
The hunt is still on.
/J
On Nov 23, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Della Barba, Joe <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> wrote:
#yiv3104702378 #yiv3104702378 -- filtered #yiv3104702378 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4
6 3 2 4;}filtered #yiv3104702378 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3
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{}If you want to know how many times I have run aground, you would be in for a
long conversation LOL. I think I am at 2 or so in the last week – marina needs
to dredge again. Seriously though, VERY good advice. I have had brokers email
me a survey that was pretty harsh. That was putting honesty over $$ and good on
them. Also note for C&Cs, we have a rather unique resource. I make no claim to
be a surveyor, but I could find C&C 35 MK I issues in 10 minutes 95% of
surveyors would never catch. A long term owner of your proposed purchase could
do a once-over and save a lot of time and money. Joe Coquina From: CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Phygital via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 09:54
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Phygital <phygi...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bridge Yacht Experience Have been looking for a boat
for just over a year now. Have traveled far and wide and dealt with numerous
brokers. I've learned the following during my journey; - if the broker is
represents both seller and buyer, either get another broker to represent you or
establish in writing that the broker agrees to represent you as much as the
seller. In some provinces or states this is mandated. - some brokers
seemingly have little historical knowledge of the vessel. I've learned the
burden is up to me to ask as many questions as possible including grounding,
propeller shaft, etc. I even ask for receipts for work done as verification it
was professionally done. Of course extent matters on the size of the job. -
some brokers only answer the questions you ask, and offer nothing more, and it
can be like pulling teeth. They won't readily forward the survey unless you
ask for it. - some brokers are really great in that they get to know the
boat, will sound the hull, take readings, etc. they do this as part of
establishing the price. Immediately forward a survey if they have it. - some
brokers allow for communication with the owners. This is rare. I get concerned,
but then I really start to collect information and ask a million questions on
every system on the boat. A decent boat owner keeps bills. - it comes down
to liability, and burden of proof. Most don't get a sea trial, or have the
engine surveyed. If it's on the hard ask to have a portion of the money held
back for a sea trial and engine survey, or other areas you could not survey at
the time (e.g. Mast alof) and only after transport. - I ask when the
pictures were taken, and ask for them sent to me in google drive so that I can
first hand verify the date and time using the file meta data. I like to visit
boats on rainy days. - one surveyor told me... when a survey fails you sleep at
night and the seller is awake. When a survey fails, or a discovery is made
during a visit, the broker is obligated to inform the next potential purchaser
of any defects found during the last survey. So it's important to ask and
document and send and receive confirmation. - if you cannot be there in
person, try and break up your survey whereby he calls you at the different
stages (hull, deck, mast, electrical, engine, etc). You can stop the survey and
pay him for his time. No sense going thru an entire survey if you would not
purchase a boat due to delamination beneath the waterline and a project such as
that is not within your means, or you wouldn't feel safe. You gotta like your
boat. - remember there is a good chance you will sell your boat, so you
might be in the same position as a seller and broker one day. It's one thing to
disclose "new shaft" (Id say great), than repairs below waterline. Think
resale. Unless this is your forever boat :). - unless there is more I'd say
you're ok... congratulations and enjoy your boat. Focus on great experiences to
come. /John
On Nov 23, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Della Barba, Joe <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> wrote:
Another question: At what point was the boat owned by you? If I sold you my
boat here and then the shipping firm bent the prop on the way to there, I would
feel bad about it but suggest the shipping firm be the ones to fix it. After
all, the boat was fine when it left my slip. If the shaft was pre-bent, someone
dropped the ball somewhere regarding sea trials and surveys. I am also VERY
wary of brokers in general after looking at a Landfall 38 described as being in
good shape by the broker. The boat had a leaking fuel tank, cracked ports,
cracks in the fiberglass around the ports, deck leaks, mold, fungus, and in
general looked like it was worth the salvage value of the lead. The broker
admitted he didn’t like climbing so had never gone down the hill to the dock
and actually looked at the boat! Joe Coquina C&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 07:03
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest <csgilchr...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bridge Yacht Experience Robin, Sorry that your
purchase resulted in a contentious relationship with your broker. First off,
was this a buyer or sellers agent? If you secured them to find you a boat and
post survey discovered something as serious as a bent prop shaft, I would put
several issues up for question: 1. Was the boat in the water or on the hard at
purchase? 2. Did you accept the results of the survey without a sea trial? 3.
If the boat was in the hard, was the engine run at the survey, both in and out
of gear? If the boat was accepted for purchase with a "no" answer, the
surveyor didn't do their job and while most surveys will include numerous
disclaimers regarding liabilities, you and your broker should have caught this
oversight. Did your broker recommend the surveyor? While this broker truly is
not responsible for making the boat free of defects, having sufficed knowledge
of the boat to be aware of major problems is part of their job especially if
they are the listing agent. At the end of the day, if you accepted and bought
a boat that was sold "as is, where is" and the boat had no warranty, it is
hard to put blame on the broker. I would make a point of thoroughly reviewing
the survey and if there was no mention of the prop shaft issue and you didn't
require a sea trial, the surveyor and broker should have made the purchase
price contingent on the boat being seaworthy. If you paid a lower than asking
price for the boat, the price may have been contingent in the boat needing
work. Often anything discovered at survey can be negotiated out of the asking
price or you can walk away from the deal. This assumes that the survey was
thorough, which does not appear to be the case here. Like most things in life,
you get what you negotiate. If you agreed to the broker and sellers conditions
up front and did little to protect your investment, then you bear the burden of
any shortcomings of the deal.
One exception, if the shaft was damaged in transport by a company hired by the
broker to move your boat to Montreal, it may be something covered by the
company that hauled or transported the boat if that is when the damage
occurred. Chuck Gilchrest Half Magic 1983 35 Landfall Padanaram MA
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 22, 2016, at 10:36 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:
Wow! I'm dismayed to hear you had such a terrible experience. I just reached a
verbal agreement with them on a C & C pending a survey and I am awaiting the
contract. So far so good, but this is concerning. Graham Young Cleveland,
O. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Robin Drew via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Bridge Yachts of Port Dover, ON is a terrible
boat brokerage firm. I would never recommend them to anyone, and they should
not be in the boat brokerage business after what I just went through. In fact,
they should not be in any business. I purchased a C&C 33 mark 2 from them
earlier this year and everything that you could think of going wrong went
wrong. Upon receiving the boat from them last May, I immediately discovered
that the boat had a bent propeller shaft. I then had to spend over $2,000 to
make the boat seaworthy. Upon communicating with Bridge Yachts who had
prepared the boat for transportation, I was told that they were not responsible
for the condition of my boat upon delivery. They told me that it was “my
problem to fix the bent propeller shaft” and that I “either sue the marine
survey who did not detect the problem” or “pursue the boat owner” (whom they
were representing) for selling me a damaged vessel. They happily took their
broker fee for the sale of the boat (a healthy amount, might I add), and they
charged me double of what they quoted me verbally for preparation of the boat.
I tried to reason with them and get them to drop the preparation charges
after giving me such a horrible experience. However, after 5 months of avoiding
legal action, they now seem bent on extracting this money from me by legal
means yet still maintaining their position of no responsibility for selling me
damaged goods. Their lack of accountability is disgraceful and they seem
to be completely unreasonable when dealing with their customers. Robin Drew,
Montreal
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_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
