If you want to know how many times I have run aground, you would be in for a long conversation LOL. I think I am at 2 or so in the last week – marina needs to dredge again. Seriously though, VERY good advice. I have had brokers email me a survey that was pretty harsh. That was putting honesty over $$ and good on them. Also note for C&Cs, we have a rather unique resource. I make no claim to be a surveyor, but I could find C&C 35 MK I issues in 10 minutes 95% of surveyors would never catch. A long term owner of your proposed purchase could do a once-over and save a lot of time and money. Joe Coquina
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Phygital via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 09:54 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Phygital <phygi...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Bridge Yacht Experience Have been looking for a boat for just over a year now. Have traveled far and wide and dealt with numerous brokers. I've learned the following during my journey; - if the broker is represents both seller and buyer, either get another broker to represent you or establish in writing that the broker agrees to represent you as much as the seller. In some provinces or states this is mandated. - some brokers seemingly have little historical knowledge of the vessel. I've learned the burden is up to me to ask as many questions as possible including grounding, propeller shaft, etc. I even ask for receipts for work done as verification it was professionally done. Of course extent matters on the size of the job. - some brokers only answer the questions you ask, and offer nothing more, and it can be like pulling teeth. They won't readily forward the survey unless you ask for it. - some brokers are really great in that they get to know the boat, will sound the hull, take readings, etc. they do this as part of establishing the price. Immediately forward a survey if they have it. - some brokers allow for communication with the owners. This is rare. I get concerned, but then I really start to collect information and ask a million questions on every system on the boat. A decent boat owner keeps bills. - it comes down to liability, and burden of proof. Most don't get a sea trial, or have the engine surveyed. If it's on the hard ask to have a portion of the money held back for a sea trial and engine survey, or other areas you could not survey at the time (e.g. Mast alof) and only after transport. - I ask when the pictures were taken, and ask for them sent to me in google drive so that I can first hand verify the date and time using the file meta data. I like to visit boats on rainy days. - one surveyor told me... when a survey fails you sleep at night and the seller is awake. When a survey fails, or a discovery is made during a visit, the broker is obligated to inform the next potential purchaser of any defects found during the last survey. So it's important to ask and document and send and receive confirmation. - if you cannot be there in person, try and break up your survey whereby he calls you at the different stages (hull, deck, mast, electrical, engine, etc). You can stop the survey and pay him for his time. No sense going thru an entire survey if you would not purchase a boat due to delamination beneath the waterline and a project such as that is not within your means, or you wouldn't feel safe. You gotta like your boat. - remember there is a good chance you will sell your boat, so you might be in the same position as a seller and broker one day. It's one thing to disclose "new shaft" (Id say great), than repairs below waterline. Think resale. Unless this is your forever boat :). - unless there is more I'd say you're ok... congratulations and enjoy your boat. Focus on great experiences to come. /John On Nov 23, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Della Barba, Joe <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov<mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>> wrote: Another question: At what point was the boat owned by you? If I sold you my boat here and then the shipping firm bent the prop on the way to there, I would feel bad about it but suggest the shipping firm be the ones to fix it. After all, the boat was fine when it left my slip. If the shaft was pre-bent, someone dropped the ball somewhere regarding sea trials and surveys. I am also VERY wary of brokers in general after looking at a Landfall 38 described as being in good shape by the broker. The boat had a leaking fuel tank, cracked ports, cracks in the fiberglass around the ports, deck leaks, mold, fungus, and in general looked like it was worth the salvage value of the lead. The broker admitted he didn’t like climbing so had never gone down the hill to the dock and actually looked at the boat! Joe Coquina C&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 07:03 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Chuck Gilchrest <csgilchr...@comcast.net<mailto:csgilchr...@comcast.net>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Bridge Yacht Experience Robin, Sorry that your purchase resulted in a contentious relationship with your broker. First off, was this a buyer or sellers agent? If you secured them to find you a boat and post survey discovered something as serious as a bent prop shaft, I would put several issues up for question: 1. Was the boat in the water or on the hard at purchase? 2. Did you accept the results of the survey without a sea trial? 3. If the boat was in the hard, was the engine run at the survey, both in and out of gear? If the boat was accepted for purchase with a "no" answer, the surveyor didn't do their job and while most surveys will include numerous disclaimers regarding liabilities, you and your broker should have caught this oversight. Did your broker recommend the surveyor? While this broker truly is not responsible for making the boat free of defects, having sufficed knowledge of the boat to be aware of major problems is part of their job especially if they are the listing agent. At the end of the day, if you accepted and bought a boat that was sold "as is, where is" and the boat had no warranty, it is hard to put blame on the broker. I would make a point of thoroughly reviewing the survey and if there was no mention of the prop shaft issue and you didn't require a sea trial, the surveyor and broker should have made the purchase price contingent on the boat being seaworthy. If you paid a lower than asking price for the boat, the price may have been contingent in the boat needing work. Often anything discovered at survey can be negotiated out of the asking price or you can walk away from the deal. This assumes that the survey was thorough, which does not appear to be the case here. Like most things in life, you get what you negotiate. If you agreed to the broker and sellers conditions up front and did little to protect your investment, then you bear the burden of any shortcomings of the deal. One exception, if the shaft was damaged in transport by a company hired by the broker to move your boat to Montreal, it may be something covered by the company that hauled or transported the boat if that is when the damage occurred. Chuck Gilchrest Half Magic 1983 35 Landfall Padanaram MA Sent from my iPhone On Nov 22, 2016, at 10:36 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Wow! I'm dismayed to hear you had such a terrible experience. I just reached a verbal agreement with them on a C & C pending a survey and I am awaiting the contract. So far so good, but this is concerning. Graham Young Cleveland, O. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Robin Drew via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Bridge Yachts of Port Dover, ON is a terrible boat brokerage firm. I would never recommend them to anyone, and they should not be in the boat brokerage business after what I just went through. In fact, they should not be in any business. I purchased a C&C 33 mark 2 from them earlier this year and everything that you could think of going wrong went wrong. Upon receiving the boat from them last May, I immediately discovered that the boat had a bent propeller shaft. I then had to spend over $2,000 to make the boat seaworthy. Upon communicating with Bridge Yachts who had prepared the boat for transportation, I was told that they were not responsible for the condition of my boat upon delivery. They told me that it was “my problem to fix the bent propeller shaft” and that I “either sue the marine survey who did not detect the problem” or “pursue the boat owner” (whom they were representing) for selling me a damaged vessel. They happily took their broker fee for the sale of the boat (a healthy amount, might I add), and they charged me double of what they quoted me verbally for preparation of the boat. I tried to reason with them and get them to drop the preparation charges after giving me such a horrible experience. However, after 5 months of avoiding legal action, they now seem bent on extracting this money from me by legal means yet still maintaining their position of no responsibility for selling me damaged goods. Their lack of accountability is disgraceful and they seem to be completely unreasonable when dealing with their customers. Robin Drew, Montreal _______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
_______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
