Same experience in my JAM fleet with 30-40 footers--barn doors win every time--in spite of advice to sail a hotter angle and jibe. Can't figure out whether the advice is BS or I sail off at an angle where the extra distance is not made up by the faster speed and the subsequent jibes. Until I am passed by a boat that jibes downwind in light air, I am sticking with the bard door approach! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom C&C 36 XL/kcb #77 Oriental, NC cenel...@aol.com
-----Original Message----- From: RANDY via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>; Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca> Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2016 3:47 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole "In light air and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest." It's been my observation that that's how the most experienced and winningest JAM boat skippers and crews in my club run downwind in their Catalina 27s, Ranger 26, and Cal 22 - wing and wing, headsail poled out. They must believe that's fastest, and they've passed me doing it while I was broad reaching and gybing downwind. Made a believer out of me, so I did the "if you can't lick 'em, join 'em" thing. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: "Michael Brown" <m...@tkg.ca> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:49:47 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole Hi Rick, I am not familiar with the rule of thumb for optimum whisker pole length, though it looks like the geometry is setting the pole at right angles to the boat, and the jib holds a 60 degree angle at the tack. For light air dead run I set the jib at 90 degrees to the centerline to maximize projected sail area and ignore flow around the sail. As you say a barn door. About 3/4 the way down there is a chart in the section "Drag Predominate ( separated flow )": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_on_sails The driving force ( Fr ) in the right hand side diagram is at maximum with the sail at 90 degrees. Also the drag force is directly in line with the boat, presumably where the mark is, where as if the sail was at a 60 degree angle to the wind the lift would also be at 60 degrees. I am in an area where PHRF allows long whisker poles and no adjustment for length. In light air and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest. Michael Brown Windburn C&C 30-1 From: "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> If your J is 13?6?, the LP of your 155 is 20?11?. By the rule of thumb, the optimum whisker pole length is about 16?9?. With the 13?4?pole at the mast and perpendicular to the centerline of the boat, the line from the tack fitting to the end of the pole is 19?1?. Perpendicular to the center line would project the sail out as far as possible (which is what the whisker pole is supposed to do). There should have been some curvature to the sail, which you want so you get the maximum pressure on the sail (a cupped shape generates more pressure than a flat barn door shape). I find I usually run the pole about 15 to 20 degrees forward of the mast to promote that cupped shape. The LP of your 135 would be about 18?3?, so the spin pole would stretch the sail flat and still be a bit forward of perpendicular. (Optimum whisker pole would be 14?7?) You might need to run the spin pole at a forward angle to get the proper sail shape, though that doesn?t get you the maximum projection of the sail. And the essence of a whisker pole is that the length is adjustable, so you and match the length to the size of the headsail you are flying. Mike Hoyt?s comment that a pole longer than J costs you seconds in most PHRF areas is true. But not in all areas. And some of us are cruisers who want to get the most out of the boat, even though too short handed to fly the spin except on a log run. Plus I have always thought the use of J for max pole length in non-spin racing to be arbitrary and slightly inequitable in those regions that give a separate rating for spin and JAM racing. Seems like if you race JAM, you ought to be able to optimize the boat for JAM racing. Rick Brass Washington, NC _______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! _______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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