Hi Ahmet,
Get rid of the galvanized washers now, they will corrode. The rest of your repair sounds fine. If you look at the pictures of my bilge you will see that under the nuts are a stack-up of stainless washers. The number of washers will depend on if you have a deep socket or not. You don’t need lock washers, that’s what tightening to the proper torque is for, the 1½ inch nuts on the three large 1 inch keel studs are torqued to 350 ft/pounds. The ¾ inch nut on the smaller ½ inch stud at the front is torqued to 80 ft/pounds. Do not over-torque this one, it will break. On a different note, in your picture 11 it looks like the floor liner has been cut out quite a lot to access the bilge. I’d like to see a picture of the whole area to compare it to the picture of mine. Cheers Rick Taillieu Nemesis '75 C&C 25 #371 Shearwater Yacht Club Halifax, NS. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via CnC-List Sent: November-24-15 03:10 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ahmet Subject: Stus-List Update: Re: Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25 A few weeks ago I started a thread about the rust on my keel bolt washers <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic2.jpg> . Today, I bit the bullet and removed one keelbolt with the boat in the water with a 3 ft breaker bar extended with a pipe. The nut seemed to still have the right torque, and came out once I applied the force in the right direction :) I was able to peel off the corroded washer/backing plate with a screwdriver and a hammer. The bolt threads were clean (pic 5) <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic5.jpg> . So was the nut l (pic 9) <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic9.jpg> . It was all stainless steel. I did not get a chance to test the magnetism. I will do tomorrow. At no point was a hint of water seepage. Whatever was left as the rusted plate under the washer is in this picture <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic13.jpg> . It looks like an iron backing plate <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic14.jpg> . It is very magnetic. All I had was galvanized washers. So I put the good stainless steel washer to the bottom added 2 galvanized washers and a galvanized lock washer and tightened the nut back to approx, 200 lbs-ft <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic11.jpg> . Probably useless, but I put some boat-life under the stainless washer which probably got totally squeezed out. In the picture <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic12.jpg> you can not see the stainless washer because it is thinner and hidden behind the silicon. There is a slight bulge at the base of the keel bolt. Repair plan: I am planning to use: * Marine-Tex just to flatten out the bilge area, probably max 1/4 inches in the deepest areas, * use a layer of 3m 4200 * a 4 by 4 by 1 inch G-10 board as a backing plate * followed with triple 316 stainless washers. Does it look like overkill ? Should I just use 1/2 inch thick G-10 boards ? I will keep an eye on the galvanized washers. I am not very comfortable mixing galvanized with stainless. Now that I have sort of an idea what is under the nuts, I will complete the job for the other washers when I pull the rest of the nuts out while on the dry next spring. If someone sees something wrong in all these (besides removing the nut while in the water, which seems to be a very contested subject ) please feel free to scold me :) Thank You Ahmet Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA 1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer" 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Actual torque values are available on the photo album site. Another material which you might find handy would be G10 FRP board. It comes in 1/4" and 1/2". I can see the 1/2" working really well to act as one large strong back for multiple keel bolts. Glop some very thick epoxy or some Six10 under the board before setting it if you want. You could use mold release on the bolts or the G10 board if you thought that you might want to remove either in the future. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Nov 8, 2015 10:37 PM, "Ahmet via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Thanks a lot guys. I will respond in one email to all the feedback to save on band with. Gary Kolc: Thank you that is very interesting and good to know Dave: I will follow your advise and use 4200. Most of the pictures I see have some kind of a sealant. Pretty much all of it will get squeezed out when the torque is applied anyway. I guess what is left will be whatever is on the uneven parts under the washer, and perhaps squeezed in into the area around the bolt. "70'es hot -rod fiberglass sorcery"... That about sums it up :) You are right they are probably original. I will lay up as much fiberglass as I can without removing the nut, to add width, trying to make the sump area as clean as Rick T. 's pictures show. I need to use a roller and go slow in order to make sure not to have voids. Maybe I'll put a 1 inch oak plywood vertically into that area and then epoxy/glass it in. I am not very familiar with fiberglass work, so I'll pick some other's brains here. filling in an area of 4 by 7 by 2 inches with epoxy/fillers and glass may be too much. Rick Taillieu : Thank you very much for the pictures. Your boat looks very clean even though it is almost as old as mine. I guess they must have had different people with different skills laying up these boats. I am starting to get convinced that Tabasco came out of the factory this way, and they just simply screwed up the sump. On my (picture 3) <http://www.boatjuggler.com/images/pic3.jpg> you can see at the bottom part the round area with a hole in it where the glass just seems to have cured not going across, but simply folded back. I should dremel that irregularity off or better, fill it in with thickened epoxy and lay glass in such a way that it covers the bolt and is nice and smooth as yours is. That one is the first picture in your series. The one with two washers, so your sump starts a few inches after the bolt. Also based on what Gary posted about his 38 C&C I think this boat has been this way all her life. So I am not worried about that one as much but just for my piece of mind, I'll fix that to at least cover the keel bolt and give the rest of the washer some footing. Maybe the guy who did my bilge did your hull on the aft end of the keel sump afterwards :) Rick Brass: Thanks for the info. Tabasco has a anchor locker with a hawse pipe on the bow. Perhaps someone added a little bulkhead to make an anchor locker out of the front part of the v-berth. I am pretty sure my surviving washer and the nuts are galvanized. Not sure about the bolts. The rusted out washers could have been 42 year old stainless washers. Interestingly the nuts and washers are identical to what we use at my club to hold parts of the docks together, so I have plenty of supplies. I will order a deep socket from McMaster-Carr and try to see if I can loosen the nut without using an impact wrench. I do not feel comfortable subjecting the bilge/keel to the vibration of an impact wrench. I will have the other washers handy, quickly replace them and tighten the bolt back up. I am not sure about the torque, I will go to 100 ft-lbs until I find out exactly what material the bolts and nuts are. Does that sound about right ? Does anybody have the actual number. Again, thanks everybody for all the information Ahmet Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA 1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer" 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Rick Taillieu via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Ahmet, I uploaded some pictures of my bilge here, http://postimg.org/gallery/3eg9rsocy/ Let me know if the link works for you. Rick Taillieu Nemesis '75 C&C 25 #371 Shearwater Yacht Club Halifax, NS. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via CnC-List Sent: November-07-15 17:01 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ahmet Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25 Thank you. I would be interested to see if you have a sump area, i.e a 3 - 4 inch dropoff in the bilge which then slopes upwards towards the bow. I am not sure how come that keel-bolt got exposed. I did a search for Tabasco on the list archives, and did not find any references. I bought it from an older gentlemen in Marblehead, MA. He had been sailing her for a while but health issues have been preventing him. The boat was neglected to some point. All the wiring was laid up but not connected. The stanchions were leaking. Others have told me that too. Maybe it is a familiar sounding name. First thing I did is replace the stanchions with the aluminum toerail mounted ones and used wooden dowels soaked with 4200 and marinetex to get rid of all holes from he old stanctions. So now the cabin is pretty dry. The hatch is leaking a bit but I think that is just the rubber gasket. He lost the rigging last year so she has brand-new rigging, double, brand new heavy lifelines and a 4-stroke 2010 Nissan 9.9 hp engine. Thank You Ahmet Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA 1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer" 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- ------------------------------------------- Ahmet "S/V Waterdancer" 1990 Irwin 43 CC "Tabasco" 1973 C&C 25 Winthrop Yacht Club, Winthrop, MA / USA ------------------------------------------- _____ No virus found in this message. 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