In response to Joel’s question – I would not trust Google or Yahoo Groups with
the first letter of the alphabet. Their user databases get hacked on a daily
basis and the owner has very little if any control over the design, maintenance
or administration.
Our list has been stable for quite a few years with very few problems. Right
now we have close to 700 members on this list and asking them to move someplace
else would be unthinkable.
So, we are here to stay.
Stu
From: Joel Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:18 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List No Messages
Stu,
Is it time to switch to something like Google Groups or Yahoo Groups?
I'm not an IT guy, but it seems like it would lighten your load (after a brief
but painful transition).
Joel
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Stu <s...@snghost.com> wrote:
Listers
During the past couple of days, our web hosting company was doing some
maintenance and it did affect the messages getting through.
Looks like we are back up and running now.
Stu
From: Ronald B. Frerker
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:05 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question-Warning, a little long winded!
Message to Stu,
I've not been receiving many of these messages; been that way since
sunday.
Didn't even get my own response to one from yesterday when I mentioned
my problem the first time.
While I'm not a ludite, I'm not real computer literate.
I've checked my spam mail folder but none there. What's my next step?
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL
--- On Wed, 5/29/13, djhaug...@juno.com <djhaug...@juno.com> wrote:
From: djhaug...@juno.com <djhaug...@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question-Warning, a little long
winded!
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Wednesday, May 29, 2013, 7:49 AM
Hi Mark,
When I decided to move up from my O'Day 22, I started looking at 27'
boats. Then at the encouragement of my wife we decided to consider even larger
boats. Then at the advice of some seasoned boaters, which was to go as big as
you feel comfortable with, started looking at even larger boats. So, we
started shopping for a boat, on and off, for probably 2 years. We saw a lot of
peoples garbage they wanted us to pay to have the privilege of removing for
them, we saw boats grossly overpriced, we looked at boats out of our price
range to see what you get for your money. We discovered you simply cannot take
anyone at their word on condition. (after all, these people are emotionally
attached to their boats and probably in denial, not so much dishonest) In the
end, we decided to go up to a 34' boat because that was largest boat allowed at
the marina where I kept the O'Day...(No we aren't there anymore, we ended up
keeping Lolita at the same marina where we found her, we love it there!)
What happened for me is, I became more familiar with bigger boats by,
reading about them and visiting them. I discovered things that bother my wife
and I and things that weren't such a big deal. Some things she felt more
strongly about and vice versa.
Then, one day, after looking at about 7 or 8 boats including an O'Day
32, a Rhodes 30, a couple of Pearsons a C&C 32, among others, we were thinking
that there were about 3 boats we could potentially be happy with. The O'Day
seemed roomy and pretty modern, the Pearsons were 2 ends of a spectrum, one
seemed more modern and the other a solid boat in good condition with no frills.
The C&C felt out of our price range, a little over priced but, we might try
negotiating with the guy...
Then we went to look at a Viking 33 and the Rhodes 32 at the same
yard. We found the Rhodes, but couldn't get inside, it looked okay. Then we
found the Viking. I had read up on Vikings before we came and found them to be
reputable, well respected and of good construction, not to mention the C&C
design aspect. I was pretty hopeful about this boat so, I was a little biased.
It was pretty cool how it went; We were tired and ready to give up
the search for the day. I said "well I'm going aboard" and Karen said, "I'm
only going up the ladder if it is really worth it."
So, I climb aboard, looked around, went below, come back out and say,
"I think you should come up." She's like, "really, is really worth it?" I
say, " I think you should come up." This went on for about 5 or six rounds. I
started walking on the deck, looking for soft spots and there were none, it had
some old electronics and I was impressed because my last boat had none. It had
wheel steering, full, almost new canvass and she did not feel overwhelmingly
big. She is pretty narrow and I think that is what made her feel more
manageable from a scale perspective.
I said again, "I think you should come up." So, finally, she did,
The thing had peeling paint all over the place below and the head was
disgusting. But, somehow the boat was still appealing to us. Karen knew what
kind of restoration work I was capable of after the O'Day 22 experience and was
able to see past the cosmetics and agreed this was probably the happy medium
we'd been looking for, (I should mention, we both wanted a boat that was
considered fast). Well, we made an offer, did the survey which came back great
and we bought the boat. At this point I wish I could say it was all rainbows,
fair winds and beautiful sailing... However, she was a severely neglected
girl, and needed everything we knew about, plus new sails and a new engine. It
took me all spring and pretty much the whole summer to get her launched,
(needless to say, wifey was none too happy about my having "wasted the whole
summer" working on her and she is very gun shy about it happening this year!).
Lolita is a good, solid, and fast boat and I know her inside and out
now. She ended up costing me well over my initial budget but, in the end I
think I have the investment right around market value, maybe somewhat more than
the market would bear but, i do have brand new sails, rigging, motor, canvass
and this year, electronics! So, that would be the upgrades of a normal used
boat, (or so I like to believe!)
I guess my point, in all this, is that searching for and buying a
used boat seems to be a process, an ever changing search for something that
seems to fit your needs. You really start to change your perspective as you
look at boats and talk to they're owners and yacht broker and begin to really
define what you're looking for.
Old boats are an investment of time, money and emotions. Some would
say I must be nuts to put in the efforts to such an old boat, but, then we have
this pack of wing nuts who advise, encourage, compliment and give smack up side
the head once in while that help keep us all feeling sane, and helped. I could
never have accomplished all the work I did alone and you won't have to either.
There are all kinds of sources to explain processes in fixing boats. there are
all kinds of brand specific groups (none to equal this group of course!) I
think if you are prepared to do the work in fixing all that is wrong to begin
with and the proper maintenance, you'll be a better sailor and happier person.
But, thats just me! LMAO ...and I'm not all that stable!!
Then, you could always buy the boat that has been all updated and
well maintained, pay the market value and have the yard do all the work. Oh to
dream...
Anyway, I hope this helped a little! It was kind of therapeutic for
me!!! LOL
Danny
Lolita
1973 Viking 33
Westport Point, MA
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Russ & Melody <russ...@telus.net>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:29:21 -0700
Hi Mark,
As you already know there is no simple answer.
But here are the dimension for the perfect boat:
Cocktails for 6
Dinner for 4
Sleeps 2
Seriously, 30' is ideal for light sailing with a weekend & a bit
away. Bigger gets more toys tolerated and comfort underway (especially if you
actually go sailing if it's windy). For 20 grand your best bet is the one that
has been maintained (vs say, size weighted consideration) so to get the best
value. Good sails can be the difference in the bargain... only 3 new cruising
sails are a minimum 6 grand from the orient.
Personally I went from a 60' cruising cutter to a 35 mk-1 and love
her. However I have a 40' motor-sailor sitting in the back yard awaiting my
semi-retirement where I can spend 4 5 months aboard, cruising the west coast.
Your mileage may vary. Enjoy the hunt.
Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
At 09:01 PM 28/05/2013, you wrote:
I'm still looking at boats, reading emails from this list and
learning lots. Right now I'm sitting back, watching the market, looking to new
boats that come up, and trying to figure out where I want to end up.
Maybe some more experienced listers can offer some thoughts (on or
off list).
I know that everyone has there own criteria - but I'm trying to
figure out the right boat for me. My Mirage 24 is quite small - 5ft of
headroom (only my 8 yr old can stand up), not enough space to sleep 5 (me and 4
kids), lacks an enclosed head, no functional galley, noisy and smelly outboard.
I envision wanting to do some more sailing - little further out of
the harbour, some overnights (effectively boat camping with the kids), maybe a
long weekend away with the girlfriend.
But we've all heard the cracks "2 best days in a boater life - the
day he/she buys their boat, and the day they sell it", or "A boat is a hole in
the water you pour money into" - not really encouraging. So, why, if they are
so terrible does everyone get 2 foot itis?
Feel free to espouse on why did you end up with the boat you have?
Do you wish you stayed smaller/cheaper/simpler?
What would you say to yourself if you could go back and offer
advice? Was this the best decision ever? If you could make a change what do
you want? A bigger galley? Bigger cockpit?
My temptation was to find a 29-30 foot boat that would work,
thinking that would last me for years with the kids and still be a manageable
size when they are off. Keeping costs reasonable, maintenance manageable and
enough boat to venture further afield.
Right now I could buy a local C&C 33 (with and Atomic4), or a local
C&C 30 (diesel), or there are 29's, 30's and 34's within reach - the prices are
similar. I plan on climbing aboard a few different boats to get a feel for
size and space, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm getting into without
having to learn the painfully hard way! I'm leaning towards a diesel (only
because that seems to be common opinion and gas on my current boat has it's
downsides), wheel steering and something fairly stable (so kids and girlfriend
aren't barfing over the side -- which I gather eliminates the 29's from the
list). Price wise I'd like to stay below $20000.
I have the cash set aside to buy the boat, but clearly bigger is
not always better, the maintenance and insidious upkeep costs can add up
quickly. I was able to do a quick sand and bottom paint on my M24 in 2.5 hrs.
Assuming the cost and workload multiply with the displacement I'm guessing a
30ft (being twice the displacement) would be double the effort, a 34ft 3 times
the work. At what point is it more work and you wish for a smaller/cheaper
boat?
Thanks in advance for the advice,
Mark
--
---------------------
Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
---------------------
There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
- George Santayana
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Joel
301 541 8551
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