2014-04-19 23:39 GMT+02:00 Timothy Baldridge <tbaldri...@gmail.com>: > "That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not > bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if > they can introduce clojure in their tools set." > > That's utter bogus. Who has ever said that..."I won't move to Clojure > because I can do it in Java". Because Clojure has a terse syntax, and sane > defaults, most Clojure code will be 1/10th the size. Smaller code often > means less bugs, etc. > > But a bunch of wrappers? Don't be ridiculous. Go look at test-check, > core.async, core.logic, Datomic, ring, compojure. None of that stuff is a > wrapper. > > But I guess what irritates me the most about comments like this is that > they completely miss the goal of software engineering. The goal is to > engineer a solution to a problem. If people are just taking whatever stuff > Oracle/Microsoft/Google/Cognitect/Clojurewerkz/TypeSafe hands them and > saying "welp...I guess we'll use X because that's what the big boys use." > Then they're a lost cause IMO. Software engineering and design is about > thinking about the problem and coming up with simple solutions. It's > design, not an assembly plant. >
+1 it is a reality, and I find that reality many times :( I completely agree with you! > > > Timothy > > > On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Paulo Suzart <paulosuz...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Yes. >> >> That's the point. You are taking about a bunch of wrappers. They are not >> bad, but will not make these people to move their asses from java. Even if >> they can introduce clojure in their tools set. >> >> Thanks >> On 19 Apr 2014 18:09, "Timothy Baldridge" <tbaldri...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> " I have dozen colleagues that can't foster clojure because they want a >>> language with tools that fits every day." >>> >>> Can you explain this statement? I'm not sure I understand. I haven't >>> touched any language but Clojure for "every day work" in months (years?). I >>> can write a game in Clojure, I can write swing/javafx apps if I want, I can >>> write webapps, I can write distributed systems, I can write high >>> performance code as well as "hack it out fast" code. >>> >>> So far in my career as a software developer, I've learned, C, C++, >>> QBasic, VB, Delphi, Python, C#, Python, and Erlang. I left every single one >>> of those languages because at one point or another they restricted what I >>> could do with them. There came a day where I said "wow...if I could just do >>> X this would be so much simpler". That day hasn't come yet for me with >>> Clojure. Even after 4 years. >>> >>> I'm not sure what these people want? >>> >>> Timothy >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Paulo Suzart <paulosuz...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Unfortunately I'm not a Stuart or a Emerick, or a Miller. So I can't >>>> really contribute to clojure that deep. I'm in the user /tech consumer >>>> side. >>>> >>>> That said, it is not my concern only. I have dozen colleagues that >>>> can't foster clojure because they want a language with tools that fits >>>> every day. Not tools for very specific cases that may come out if they work >>>> in a very specific company in a very specific country. >>>> >>>> I don't know, I still have all my coins on that. Really hope we can >>>> have almost pure clojure clojure solutions as we have pure java solutions. >>>> >>>> Thank you all for your opinions. >>>> On 19 Apr 2014 17:40, "Michael Klishin" <michael.s.klis...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2014-04-19 20:15 GMT+04:00 Paulo Suzart <paulosuz...@gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> People say clojure is good for data. But where are the cases? And >>>>>> more specifically, where are the frameworks and libs to support it? Are >>>>>> they talking about wrappers around java for Hadoop? Sigh... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I see lots of companies of all sizes use Clojure successfully for data >>>>> processing. The great thing about data >>>>> processing is that there are many ways to do it. Some use Cascalog, >>>>> some use libraries unrelated to Hadoop, >>>>> others use just Clojure. So while there may or may not be a single >>>>> "killer app" like Rails, Clojure is fantastic >>>>> at this particular group of problems, as demonstrated by companies >>>>> from < 10 to 10s of thousands of people. >>>>> -- >>>>> MK >>>>> >>>>> http://github.com/michaelklishin >>>>> http://twitter.com/michaelklishin >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient >>>>> with your first post. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>>> your first post. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking >>> zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C >>> programs.” >>> (Robert Firth) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>> your first post. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking > zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C > programs.” > (Robert Firth) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - <andrei.anto...@kaleidos.net> / <n...@niwi.be > http://www.niwi.be <http://www.niwi.be/page/about/> https://github.com/niwibe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
