> between the current doc improvement for lein we're both participating in ( https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1007) and the available doc for CCW (installation is one step really), are there any pain points that such a starter kit would address?
A starter kit would address several things: - To a beginner it is not clear that he should pick leiningen - A starter kit includes an IDE that the user doesn't need to find and choose among the many options himself - The current installation, even if everything is documented perfectly, is still many steps. for somebody who is determined to install clojure this is not a problem, but somebody who is not so determined may give up, especially since the steps are not documented in one place. > AFAIK, this is not true. Eclipse Counterclockwise comes bundled with its own internal copy of leiningen, and completely manages it for you. You do not need to manually install leiningen or understand anything about it other than how to add dependencies to your project.clj file. Ah, I had not realized this. If this is the case then this would solve many problems. It has certainly never worked for me. I will have access to a windows 8 machine soon, I'll try it there. And if it doesn't work there either I will also try installing leiningen by hand there, to see if that does work. And if so, I'll write a guide on how to install everything that's easy to follow by a newbie like me ;-) Or if somebody does figure out how to install CCW from the command line, I'll write a script that downloads and installs everything automatically. > Which (yes, I'm a broken record), all again speaks in favor of Clooj as a starter kit: Download one thing and double click to run. Yes, this would be the ideal experience. But I do think that you very quickly want leiningen integration. For so many things you have an external dependency, e.g. people wanting to play with core.logic or with web programming. Maybe lighttable will eventually fill this role. Generally commercially backed projects do better in this regard, because if they aren't user friendly they go bankrupt ;-) > I think there's a feeling that Clojure should not be too opinionated or too proscriptive. Yes, this diversity is good for experienced clojure developers, but for a beginner it is great if the community has paved a default route for people just getting started, because beginners can't make an informed choice yet. Later when they are more knowledgeable, they can always switch to something else easily. > There certainly has been an attitude in the Clojure world that you need to think more and be a "better than average developer". I think what we're seeing now is an influx of people that are different to the early adopters and the ecosystem hasn't yet adjusted to address that. Yes this is part of the reason, but I think there's no denying that it's just hard on windows. On linux I was able to set up clojure pretty easily. Even though it's not a one step process on linux, it's reasonably obvious which steps to take and once you take them it actually works immediately. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
