On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Jules <julesjac...@gmail.com> wrote: > But most windows users aren't familiar with emacs.
Probably fair to say that "most <insert anything except lisp> users aren't familiar with emacs" :) > Note also that the hypothetical beginner has not figured out yet that > lein.bat is in fact leiningen. He thinks that that is just the install > script (since this is not made clear on the leiningen site), and he thinks > the installation has failed. It is not made clear that lein.bat *is* the > program you want to run, and that you want to put it on your path as well. I'm sure Phil would appreciate tickets on the Leiningen issue tracker that provided specific suggested changes to the wording / documentation, that would help make the project more approachable to Windows users. Changing clojure.org is another matter, unfortunately, and that comes up repeatedly. It would certainly be an improvement if the Getting Started page linked to leiningen.org instead of the Github repo. > Another problem, also seen in this thread, is that there are too many > options and no consensus on what's the best way to get started. I think there's a feeling that Clojure should not be too opinionated or too proscriptive. Basically, if you're already developing JVM-based software, you should just be able to "add Clojure" to whatever you're already doing. I think also many Clojurians have strong opinions on how they prefer to develop - because of the sort of people that Clojure has historically attracted - and so there's not yet been any real coalescing into a single "endorsed" way of doing things. > Blaming the newbies by saying "you better practice the skill of figuring out > things" is a bit unfair I think. There certainly has been an attitude in the Clojure world that you need to think more and be a "better than average developer". I think what we're seeing now is an influx of people that are different to the early adopters and the ecosystem hasn't yet adjusted to address that. > The way I view it, learning > the magic incantations to get a specific tool working is not useful > knowledge. People would rather fill their brain with the cool stuff: how > reducers, lambda, macros, core.logic work, etc. Yes, but... Installation is a one-off. Once you're done, you don't have to revisit it until you move to a new machine, by which time you already know how to set things up to your liking, because you succeeded before (even if took you a while the first time). When I first installed Leiningen + Emacs on a number of machines, I ran into a number of problems (Emacs 24 previews on Ubuntu were an adventure, for example) but it's gotten easier each time I've done it. Leiningen on Windows is "trivial" now but was frustrating / bewildering at my first attempt (especially not being particularly familiar with Windows in the first place!). -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ "Perfection is the enemy of the good." -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
