When I taught myself Scheme and Common Lisp more than ten years ago, I didn't have any problem with the parentheses, probably because I just learned a little bit of C/C++ or Pascal (Delphi) and were eager to learn Emacs (one of the two major editors in the Unix/Linux world) when I switched to the then emerging free GNU/Linux OS from virus-ridden Windows.
I believe if one is ready to learn new things and has access to capable editors, parentheses won't be the real block. Of course, saying this won't solve the problem Sergey meant to solve. This problem has been raised numerous times and there have been many attempts to remove the parentheses in Lisp languages for those not getting it. Dylan could be considered as one of the most fruitful one. Dylan, as you know, has not been a mainstream language all the same, probably due to bad luck when Objective C was chosen instead for Mac development before it really got off. Anyone who is interested in implementing such a system is welcome to go ahead and experiment, though the result may not be that encouraging, given the history in Lisp languages. Also, it seems that alternative syntax for other languages, such as the revised syntax for OCaml, is difficult to gain widespread use and even fragments the user community in some way. Just some random thoughts. On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 7:38 PM, Lee Spector <lspec...@hampshire.edu> wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Rich Morin wrote: > >> On Feb 4, 2013, at 19:49, deliminator wrote: >>> Long story short: want more people to love lisp? >>> Implement paredit for more editors. >> >> +1! > > -1 > > Just another data point and YMMV, but I've long loved Lisp and long hated > paredit. I do agree, however, that editor features are key. For me, what > makes the difference is bracket/parentheses *matching* (showing what matches > what, but not typing for me) and good auto-reindentation. In my experience > those features make it so obvious what the code structure is that it's simple > to keep things balanced correctly. Paredit, however, goes too far by thinking > it knows more than I do about what I want to type when, and gets in the way > when I want to type my ideas in a weird order and/or cut/paste unbalanced > things, which I basically do continuously. > > FWIW I also teach new programmers Lisp with some regularity, and I don't get > the sense that parentheses are ever a big issue (in the context of the > editors that I provide, which always have bracket matching and > auto-reindentation -- yes, it' d be great for those to be more ubiquitous). > On the other hand, defeating students' existing typing/cutting/pasting > habits, or making them deal with emacs arcana: problems. > > Again, YMMV! > > -Lee > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
