I put together the Getting Started confluence page. I'm sure it could still be improved, but adding further to it won't really fix the problems you've noticed, and that many other people have noted. It's still on a secondary site, and Confluence doesn't really give you a lot of design options----also ordinary Clojure Contributors don't have the ability to \delete existing pages, so new material will for now just add clutter on the sidebar.
At least one respected Clojurian that I know of has offered to write a new clojure.org site, but replacing or updating it has not been a priority. Brent is right that you can find what you need on Clojure.org without it being "pretty", but the current (and now quite old) site sends new users some messages we may not necessarily intend: 1. People hoping merely to Get Something Done will be looking to a streamlined site as evidence that they won't have to waste too much time getting up and running with their work. These users will note, consciously or not, that the information they really need is one among many choices buried on a link off the bottom of a page linked from the \sixth subheading on the sidebar of the main site. (Yes, Getting Started apparently falls under 'Reference'----which is itself secondary to 'Swag'.) 2. People looking to make a creative contribution will look for evidence that what they have to offer is valued. If that contribution is tools for building well-designed websites, Clojure.org will not give the impression that anyone in the community would care. This impression would be false, but you'd have to look quite a bit harder to realize this. Some people may not mind turning away new user #1; but turning away new user #2 is unfortunate in any possible world. If I wanted to give someone an elevator pitch for Clojure, I'd admit that it is new and has some rough edges; but that it offers tremendous flexibility, power, and concision; and that it is evolving into an environment where an entire web application, from data all the way up to presentation, can be written in the same carefully-designed language and environment. That's \huge, but it doesn't come across in Clojure.org at all. On Oct 1, 2:13 pm, aboy021 <arthur.bo...@gmail.com> wrote: > I decided to quickly compare the website experience of starting Clojure and > starting Scala. > > I do a Google search for Clojure > I decide to try the first link, Clojure.org > There's some basic information. I follow the somewhat obscure link halfway > down the side, "Getting Started" > Ok, that looks promising, now I can get a REPL to interact with. > I follow the link to the Getting Started Documentation > (http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started) (isn't that where I > already was?) > Still flailing a bit, I follow the link to Mark Volkmann's Tutorial. > This is the first chance I've had to see what Clojure actually looks like > and how to program in it. > > In stark contrast, I try searching for Scala. > I get presented with an appealing, nicely laid out page with large links to > an introduction to the language and a page on getting started. > There are links in an easy to navigate menu with Information about the > language, documentation, code examples, Software, and Developer information. > > Now, I'm no Scala developer, but at first glance it seems like I've found a > great touch stone that I can use to find out what's happening in the > language, how it looks, what it can do for me, and I can learn how to write > it. > > Another thing that the scala-lang site has is Code Examples. Code examples > are a really nice way for you to get a taste of how a language can solve > common problems, and they can give you a real sense of the flavour of the > language. > > A lot of the information for Clojure seems to be there, it's just not laid > out in an attractive easy to use format. Perhaps we could have a fundraiser > to pay for a web designer to make a nice modern website that contains the > information in an easier to digest and more centralised way > > The getting started issue is an ongoing problem for Clojure. It's an issue > that keeps coming up in the surveys and on the mailing list. Other > languages are doing it really well, Scala is just a convenient example. > What does the Clojure community need to do to help support the creation of > something that is on par? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
