I should qualify my response though to say that I am not advocating that everyone switch their preferred style of code.
Just simply giving reasons for why some prefer one style over another. It's a personal thing, and I do not wish to engage in a flame war over it. Best, Greg On Aug 18, 2010, at 1:36 PM, Greg wrote: >> Now the question you're asking is, why don't lispers write >> (MyFactory somearg >> ) >> which makes me cringe. > > That's not at all what's being suggested -- you'll find that both in the OP's > code and in the link below, there are many locations where closing > parenthesis are ended on the same line. > > Trailing parens are placed only for certain blocks that traditionally would > define a "scope" in another language, and this is convenient for many > reasons, including generic reasons not attached to any specific language. > It's not about carrying over "much loved C style" to Lisp, but to make actual > use of parenthesis for the purpose of clearly outlining the structure of your > code. > > Again, the link goes much more into depth on this. > > Attached is a screenshot of some code from the wonderful Incanter library. I > think it's a great illustration of how confusing stacking parenthesis can be > (there are many functions in there that are like this). > > The readability issue occurs when there's a drop in several indentation > levels after many lines. This is a problem regardless of what the > indentation width is, but is certainly made worse by a small indentation > width. > > - Greg > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Tim Daly wrote: > >> A more serious answer is that when I code in Java I use the >> brace-on-a-line kind of indentation. When I code in Lisp I >> never write single-line parens of any kind. >> >> I find that I think differently in each language. >> >> My Java code is always a pile of declare-this, do-this, do-this, return >> Thus I find that I'm delimiting the scope of my variables, marking my >> control flow and branching logic, try/catch logic, class boundaries, etc. >> >> My Lisp code mixes control flow and data structures in the same syntax. >> Thus the idea that parens are some kind of control flow delimiter is >> not particularly meaningful. >> >> To see the alternative case, take a Java program, find every function call >> such as: >> MyFactory(somearg); >> throw away the ';', and move the paren left to get: >> (MyFactory somearg) >> >> Now the question you're asking is, why don't lispers write >> (MyFactory somearg >> ) >> which makes me cringe. >> >> A second reason is that Lisp allows you to think things that Java >> does not. Java has this imperative, object-oriented, hierarchical >> style of writing. My lisp code sytle varies to fit the problem. >> Sometimes it is imperative, sometimes functional, sometimes OO, >> sometimes snobol-like pattern matching, sometimes class-based. >> Occasionally I dynamically construct the code and execute it inline. >> Or I use macros to create my own problem language and code in that. >> And I create my data structures "on the fly" inline to the code. >> >> Once you really internalize lisp there are no real constraints >> on what you think or write. Thus there is no question of "bracing >> style" that is meaningful. >> >> The whole idea of "bracing style" is Java-think. Your language >> choice has given you an OO-procedural mindset. So when you reach >> for Lisp you want to see what you have come to expect. People who >> work with bricks (Java) tend to wonder why they don't find bricks >> among people who work with modelling clay (Lisp). The answer isn't >> in the material, it is in your mindset. >> >> Just by looking at lisp code I can tell what your native language >> is. Fortran programmers simulate COMMON blocks, C programmers use >> things as pointers, etc. "You can write Fortran in any language" >> is a famous quote but "you can't write Lisp in any language". And >> you can quote me on that. (But only in my obituary :-) ) >> >> In fact, I think that this is going to be the hardest barrier >> to the adoption of Clojure. "Real Java Programmers" are not going >> to like the bracing style (or lack thereof) in Clojure. >> >> Tim Daly >> >> Greg wrote: >>> It's almost purely community convention that has been adopted from Lisp. >>> >>> You may be interested in this link: >>> >>> http://gregslepak.posterous.com/on-lisps-readability >>> >>> There is much discussion about this topic there. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Greg >>> >>> On Aug 18, 2010, at 2:09 AM, michele wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Wouldn't that make it easier to keep track of them. >>>> >>>> Example: >>>> >>>> (defn myfn-a [a b] >>>> (if (zero? b) >>>> a >>>> (recur >>>> (afn (bfn (...)) a) >>>> (dec b)))) >>>> >>>> (defn myfn-b [a b] >>>> (if (zero? b) >>>> a >>>> (recur >>>> (afn (bfn (...)) a) >>>> (dec b) >>>> ) >>>> ) >>>> ) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>>> your first post. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your >> first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > <Screen shot 2010-08-18 at 1.32.09 PM.png>-- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
