Thanks for the tip! On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 1:20:17 AM UTC+3 markus...@gmail.com wrote:
> Concering your quote "my interest in programming is not limited to data > science/ML...I am potentially interested in building apps": my repository > https://github.com/kloimhardt/bb-web has a set of examples, starting with > a 10 line html file (directly containing Clojure code to be edited, no > compiler needed) up to a quite sophisticated web-app example. Could not be > farther away from Datascience/ML though. It just tries to lower Clojure's > entry bar for the curious. > > Baye schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 15:23:01 UTC+2: > >> Thank you for your insight! >> >> On Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 1:46:22 AM UTC+3 Nando Breiter wrote: >> >>> As someone who has known about Clojure for a long time but only recently >>> started programming in it, Clojure seems particularly easier to learn by >>> building something with it, as opposed to reading about it. Perhaps this is >>> because the language, ecosystem, and indeed the general approach to >>> programming in Clojure is made of small building blocks. >>> >>> My analogy - Clojure seems to be more like a set of legos, whereas OO >>> languages seem to be more like a train set. >>> >>> The flexibility of legos might seem complex if you are looking for a top >>> down *how-to* narrative, but fundamentally, you don't need much >>> instruction to start sticking them together. The simplicity of working with >>> legos remains. Any kid can do it. >>> >>> The photo on the train set box more immediately shows you how the whole >>> thing goes together, so the train set might seem more simple at first. Yes, >>> you need to read the instructions and follow them precisely, but that's >>> sort of ok. The complexity comes later, when the tracks supplied in the >>> train set, and maybe the train itself, *get in your way*. >>> >>> So I'd suggest reading a book to understand the fundamentals if you >>> haven't already, Clojure for the Brave and True or Carin Meier's book >>> Living Clojure are both good, and then as soon as possible start sticking >>> functions together like those lego blocks to build something. From one >>> perspective, that's more complex because you don't have the train set laid >>> out for you, but from another, it's more simple, because composing >>> functions together is always simply composing functions together. >>> >>> I've found Practicalli https://practicalli.github.io/ to be a very >>> helpful springboard to get through the initial steps needed to get >>> something to work, and have been really happy to be able to work with >>> Datomic Cloud using the recently released dev-local version, with allows >>> for local storage. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 10:32 PM Baye <sows...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Great, Thanks! >>>> >>>> On Monday, September 28, 2020 at 11:23:49 PM UTC+3 ch...@techascent.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh, well then I don't see what you are waiting for :-). >>>>> >>>>> Here are some interesting and more stats-focused libraries that may be >>>>> interesting to you - >>>>> >>>>> * kixi stats <https://github.com/MastodonC/kixi.stats> - Clojury >>>>> statistics - written by Henry Gardner, the author of the aforementioned >>>>> Clojure >>>>> For Data Science >>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Clojure-Data-Science-Henry-Garner/dp/1784397180> >>>>> * fastmath <https://github.com/generateme/fastmath#statistics> - >>>>> Carefully chosen and curated fast JVM mathematical primitives >>>>> * clojisr <https://github.com/scicloj/clojisr> - R <-> Clojure bridge >>>>> * Anglican <https://probprog.github.io/anglican/index.html> - a >>>>> probabilistic programming language >>>>> * Bayadera <https://github.com/uncomplicate/bayadera> - MKL, GPU >>>>> enhanced probabilistic programming system. >>>>> >>>>> Enjoy :-) >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:57 AM Baye <sows...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chris, Thanks! I will check out the mentioned resources. >>>>>> Just to be clear, the only language I know well is Stata. I am still >>>>>> a very new to python, so I don't have any baggage to take with me as I >>>>>> have >>>>>> not invested enough time. >>>>>> Given I am philosophically convinced of the long term benefits of >>>>>> Clojure from talks, my only apprehension was whether I will be able to >>>>>> do >>>>>> most things in Clojure as in Python. But my interest, in programming is >>>>>> not >>>>>> limited to data science/ML...I am potentially interested in building >>>>>> apps >>>>>> (web/desktop, etc) for potential future projects in education, health >>>>>> etc.. >>>>>> On Monday, September 28, 2020 at 8:39:06 PM UTC+3 >>>>>> ch...@techascent.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> There are hybrid options available in the form of >>>>>>> https://github.com/clj-python/libpython-clj -- I am one of the >>>>>>> primary authors of this tool. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One pathway perhaps is to use clojure to do your scraping and >>>>>>> orchestration (and frontend display) and just use python from command >>>>>>> line >>>>>>> scripts to do some ml. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For Clojure and data science there is SciCloj: >>>>>>> https://scicloj.github.io/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My opinion is that learning Clojure independent of data science is >>>>>>> a worthy and substantial task - functional programming, the JVM, Java, >>>>>>> Clojurescript, Reagent are all pretty big subjects. libpython-clj has >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> new-to-clojure >>>>>>> <https://github.com/clj-python/libpython-clj/blob/master/docs/new-to-clojure.md> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> page that lists some resources for helping with this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Happy to help more and really happy to see new people. I think >>>>>>> Gary's response is spot on and just wanted to elaborate that we have >>>>>>> tools >>>>>>> that are specifically designed for helping people transition from >>>>>>> Python to >>>>>>> Clojure without needing to walk away from their Python knowledge base. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:08 AM Baye <sows...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Got it. Thanks again for your time! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 28, 2020 at 8:05:32 PM UTC+3 Gary Trakhman >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not only the language and the techniques you intend to apply, but >>>>>>>>> the larger language and library ecosystem. For most people, Clojure >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> best used when you >>>>>>>>> have familiarity with the JVM and existing java core libraries and >>>>>>>>> 3rd-party libraries, and some IDE/editor environment with enough >>>>>>>>> features >>>>>>>>> to be productive, but >>>>>>>>> those are extra things to learn. Something like Scheme/Racket >>>>>>>>> used for SICP is a great teaching language because all those >>>>>>>>> decisions are >>>>>>>>> made for you and >>>>>>>>> you can focus on the abstract content in the book instead of >>>>>>>>> getting bogged down in tooling. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for data-science/ML, it has good tools, it's just not the most >>>>>>>>> widely used language by data scientists. >>>>>>>>> Check out Clojure for data science: >>>>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Clojure-Data-Science-Henry-Garner/dp/1784397180 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the most part, I'd expect production-scale data science tools >>>>>>>>> to wrap java ones with a better/clojurey interface. >>>>>>>>> There's some other tools I'm not familiar with, eg >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/originrose/cortex, but there are definitely >>>>>>>>> people doing data science in clojure. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:55 PM Soule S <sows...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your insight. By " learning more than one thing at >>>>>>>>>> a time", do you mean data science/ML and the language itself? If so, >>>>>>>>>> then I >>>>>>>>>> want to clarify, I have a solid foundation in data science; I am >>>>>>>>>> trained in >>>>>>>>>> the most advanced topics in econometrics (Statistics). My >>>>>>>>>> apprehension is >>>>>>>>>> mainly whether closure has good tools to do those. I know Python >>>>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks again >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:40 PM Gary Trakhman < >>>>>>>>>> gary.t...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Clojure is a fine language to learn on, but there are going to >>>>>>>>>>> be some complex details along the way. I think there are 2 >>>>>>>>>>> approaches >>>>>>>>>>> to entry into programming that you might consider. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can start with the basic fundamentals of computation and >>>>>>>>>>> work up into software engineering. For that, clojure is >>>>>>>>>>> very similar to a teaching language, 'scheme', and people can >>>>>>>>>>> work through books like SICP: >>>>>>>>>>> https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/full-text/book/book.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> with it. >>>>>>>>>>> If you follow that strategy, you'll eventually have a good >>>>>>>>>>> foundation of understanding to build on, but it might not feel very >>>>>>>>>>> useful >>>>>>>>>>> in the first year. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Another strategy is to hack up small demos of individual >>>>>>>>>>> techniques, like numerical methodologies or data visualizations. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> would go more >>>>>>>>>>> along the data-science/ML track. While it can be done in clojure >>>>>>>>>>> and there are books on the topic, you might have an easier time in >>>>>>>>>>> python >>>>>>>>>>> if you're going down that path. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would say if you start with clojure, you're going to be >>>>>>>>>>> learning more than one thing at a time and the learning curve is >>>>>>>>>>> steeper. >>>>>>>>>>> Whether >>>>>>>>>>> that's worth the cost depends on your goals and market >>>>>>>>>>> conditions. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:13 PM Baye <sows...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am new to programming. I have started to learn C++ and even >>>>>>>>>>>> some python >>>>>>>>>>>> My background is Economics. I have strong quantitative >>>>>>>>>>>> background (Math and Econ) and I know STATA. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In general, I would like to use programming >>>>>>>>>>>> (1) for ML/AI in economics topics+other utilities such as >>>>>>>>>>>> webcraping, and other data driven analyses >>>>>>>>>>>> (2) for it, fintech matchmaking platforms >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In particular, I just recently discovered I love programming. I >>>>>>>>>>>> am old (35) as a beginner but I have set a goal to become a fully >>>>>>>>>>>> capable >>>>>>>>>>>> programmer by 40...Hopefully I can learn 2 languages well enough >>>>>>>>>>>> by then. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If jobs opportunities are present then, I can switch careers >>>>>>>>>>>> although I still like my career path. I could always use my >>>>>>>>>>>> programming >>>>>>>>>>>> skills for either my job, a start up, or become a full fledge >>>>>>>>>>>> prgrammer. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Online research has led me to think that Clojure might be an >>>>>>>>>>>> excellent language to focus on because they say it is an excellent >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> rapid development (If I want to use it for a start up, lone >>>>>>>>>>>> developer), >>>>>>>>>>>> data-driven (econ and ML), and provide a path to be a great >>>>>>>>>>>> programmer. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My Apprehension is that Clojure doesn't seem widely used so >>>>>>>>>>>> might issues with doing ML projects with few libraries (compare to >>>>>>>>>>>> Python >>>>>>>>>>>> for ex), and future job prospects, etc... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I welcome any insights/advice, tips. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance, >>>>>>>>>>>> Baye >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - 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