ZF,
That's interesting about not seeing any interlacing artifacts in the compositor window. Two things might be making this happen. First, if you're not viewing the footage at 100% its original size (have the comp window zoomed out, that is), the scaling can slightly mute the visible interlacing. 75% is one of those zoom levels where the artifacts merge together a bit. Try popping to 100% and scrub through the frames to see if it shows up. Another things that might be causing the interlacing to not show up is the nature of interlacing itself. As just a quick primer, all NTSC video camera (which is most of them in the US that aren't high-def) record at 60 "half-frames" per second --frames the full 720px wide, but only 240px high. To achieve a full 720x480 frame, the cameras take the first row from the first half-frame, the first row from the second half-frame, sticks them one below the other, then grabs the second rows, stacks them, etc. The end result is a bunch of full sized interlaced frames running at half the speed they were captured --29.97 frames per second. Nasty huh? Interlacing really only shows up in areas of high motion --where there's a decently large difference between the two 60fps half-frames that make up a single interlaced frame. So what may be happening in your case is that there simply isn't much difference between the fields (half-frames). Might be worth shooting a few seconds of a quickly moving object just for testing purposes. It's also curious that mpeg2enc seems to be the source of the interlacing. Perhaps is there an option to turn it off? The whole interlacing idea came from the technology of old TVs --something to the effect of the phosphors couldn't release their light quickly enough to display smooth motion using full frames. One row would receive light on the way up, and the the other on the way down as the first were draining. Anyway, point being, new TVs don't really have those problems --especially not plasmas and LCDs- so there really isn't a solid reason to put interlaced footage on a DVD. We'd do this all the time at the production studio where I worked. Just found a nice article about ffmpeg vs. mpeg2enc that might be useful: http://www.transcoding.org/cgi-bin/transcode?FFmpeg_Vs._Mpeg2enc Consumer cameras that shoot progressive? Naw, not really any of them out there. Heck, not even that many professional cameras shoot progressing until you start paying the multi-digit thousands for them. Some of the newer HDV cams though can shoot progressive, and even when they can't, you can de-interlace and scale down to avoid losing the clarity that you would by just de-interlacing. Canon, JVC, and Sony all make consumerish level HDVs you might want to check into... And finally, about the whirl plugin's quirks about interlaced footage all I can really say is that that is one of Cinelerra's slight bugs; filters can get a little confused about things sometimes for no clear reason. Annoying, most definitely, but even Premiere plenty of such. :) Considering I'm writing this a few hours after I woke up, I've probably spoken in confusing half-sentences (interlaced sentences?), so let me know if there's anything else I can help with. :D -=Derek > Hello Derek, > > --- Derek McTavish Mounce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Welcome to Cinelerra. :) It provides a fascinating and ultimately >> very >> productive way of working when you get used to its quirks, so stick >> with >> it! > > Yes, it is a fascinating piece of art. I agree. I must confess that > I tried to use it about 0.5 years ago but could only load a file... > About a month ago I repeated the attempt to learn the system and > mode some interesting (to me) things with it. Of course, I do not > have any education in film-making, I am just recording my child on > a digital camera and want to save them to DVDs (for a lack of better > storage ideas) > > By the way, a side note. To much shock, the camera which I bought > produces interlaced mpeg movies. So it is a telecamera. For academic > purposes are there any consumer-level digital progressive-scan cameras? > Or interlacing is better ??? I know interlacing is cheaper :) > > Anyway, back to my cow, so to speak... > >> Yeah, the whole fields/NTSC/Ahhh! thing can be quite maddening. >> Usually >> you have to spend a day or two just rendering out simple tests to >> figure >> out exactly how to manipulate them in a new program. > > Unfortunately I have to make a disk and try it in a stand-alone dvd > player to discover these problems. Software player (xine and mplayer) > do not have any problems with the field order. Are there any software > tools which would allow to test compatibility with hardware players? > (Or my player is simply junky?) > >> For your specific problem, I'd recommend de-interlacing (try the >> Deinterlace filter, and also the Frames to Fields to see what looks >> best >> on your footage), then applying any other effects. That's the rule >> anyway; de-interlace if you apply any "pixel-shifting" effects. If >> the >> de-interlace filter and the whirl don't behave well together, just >> render >> out the de-interlaced section and import it back in place. > > Yes, I saw a deinterlacing filter, but I was under the impression that > it is not needed. If I look in composer, then I do not see any > interlacing effects as if the video was deinterlaced. (Or it is > deinterlaced for display purposes only). I set YUV 8-bit in the > format settings (I do not know if it has any connection to the > interlacing) What I can add that, if the output is not piped to > mpeg2enc, I do not see any interlacing effects in xine. If the > video is piped through the mpeg encoder, than xine shows interlacing > and I have to deinterlace during the play. > >> >> I've heard that Cinelerra doesn't deal particularly well with >> progressive >> and interlaced footage in the same timeline, so you might have to end >> up >> de-interlacing all of your footage. Don't know for sure. > > I think I will use this route. > > > For documentation purposes, I would add that the whirl problem > occurs with large radii and large rotation angles when top_field > first is used. In non-interlaced or bottom_field first, this does not > happen. > >> >> Let me know if I've missed a part of your question. :) >> >> >> -=Derek >> >> >> > Hello everybody, >> > >> > I am just discovering cinelerra and made my first DVD. >> > >> > To my shock, at the end of the process I discovered that I used >> > "bottom field first" which is not very good for NTSC standard. >> > Likely I have saved the xml files of all the steps so simply >> > re-running all of them with the field order changed should not >> > be very hard. Unfortunatelly, I have discovered that the whirl >> > video effect does not work well with the top field order. It >> producess >> > a black "wave" at the bottom of the screen if large whirl angles >> are >> > used. I do not quite understand the possible connection between >> > the effect and the field order, but maybe it is fixable somehow... >> > >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > ZF >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's >> > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. >> > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Cinelerra mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cinelerra mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 > > _______________________________________________ > Cinelerra mailing list > [email protected] > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra > _______________________________________________ Cinelerra mailing list [email protected] https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
