On 26 April 2016 at 16:41, Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> wrote: > Swift, you have provided a superb example of this mockery. And now > you've been called on it, you are, in natural human fashion, lashing > out in return. > > It's natural, it's human, and it's exactly why we have the stinking > pile of crap that we do today instead of tools that actually work.
I wish to apologise for this. It was unjustified and unfair, and unjustly ad-hom as well. I am getting slightly better at controlling my "FLAME ON" moments, but much more work is required. :-( I was not saying that Mr Griggs here is the reason for any of this -- that's absurd. I did imply it, though, and I shouldn't have. I'm sorry. My contention is that a large part of the reason that we have the crappy computers that we do today -- lowest-common-denominator boxes, mostly powered by one of the kludgiest and most inelegant CPU architectures of the last 40 years -- is not technical, nor even primarily commercial or due to business pressures, but rather, it's cultural. When I was playing with home micros (mainly Sinclair and Amstrad; the American stuff was just too expensive for Brits in the early-to-mid 1980s), the culture was that Real Men programmed in assembler and the main battle was Z80 versus 6502, with a few weirdos saying that 6809 was better than either. BASIC was the language for beginners, and a few weirdos maintained that Forth was better. At university, I used a VAXcluster and learned to program in Fortran-77. The labs had Acorn BBC Micros in -- solid machines, *the* best 8-bit BASIC ever, and they could interface both with lab equipment over IEEE-488 and with generic printers and so on over Centronics parallel and its RS-432 interface, which could talk to RS-232 kit. As I discovered when I moved into the professional field a few years later (1988), this wasn't that different from the pro stuff. A lot of apps were written in various BASICs, and in the old era of proprietary OSes on proprietary kit, for performance, you used assembler. But a new wave was coming. MS-DOS was already huge and the Mac was growing strongly. Windows was on v2 and was a toy, but Unix was coming to mainstream kit, or at least affordable kit. You could run Unix on PCs (e.g. SCO Xenix), on Macs (A/UX), and my employers had a demo IBM RT-6150 running AIX 1. Unix wasn't only the domain (pun intentional) of expensive kit priced in the tens of thousands. A new belief started to spread: that if you used C, you could get near-assembler performance without the pain, and the code could be ported between machines. DOS and Mac apps started to be written (or rewritten) in C, and some were even ported to Xenix. In my world, nobody used stuff like A/UX or AIX, and Xenix was specialised. I was aware of Coherent as the only "affordable" Unix, but I never saw a copy or saw it running. So this second culture of C code running on non-Unix OSes appeared. Then the OSes started to scramble to catch up with Unix -- first OS/2, then Windows 3, then the for a decade parallel universe of Windows NT, until XP became established and Win9x finally died. Meanwhile, Apple and IBM flailed around, until IBM surrendered, Apple merged with NeXT and switched to NeXTstep. Now, Windows is evolving to be more and more Unix-like, with GUI-less versions, clean(ish) separation between GUI and console apps, a new rich programmable shell, and so on. While the Mac is now a Unix box, albeit a weird one. Commercial Unix continues to wither away. OpenVMS might make a modest comeback. IBM mainframes seem to be thriving; every other kind of big iron is now emulated on x86 kit, as far as I can tell. IBM has successfully killed off several efforts to do this for z Series. So now, it's Unix except for the single remaining mainstream proprietary system: Windows. Unix today means Linux, while the weirdoes use FreeBSD. Everything else seems to be more or less a rounding error. C always was like carrying water in a sieve, so now, we have multiple C derivatives, trying to patch the holes. C++ has grown up but it's like Ada now: so huge that nobody understands it all, but actually, a fairly usable tool. There's the kinda-sorta FOSS "safe C++ in a VM", Java. The proprietary kinda-sorta "safe C++ in a VM", C#. There's the not-remotely-safe kinda-sorta C in a web browser, Javascript. And dozens of others, of course. Even the safer ones run on a basis of C -- so the lovely cuddly friendly Python, that everyone loves, has weird C printing semantics to mess up the heads of beginners. Perl has abandoned its base, planned to move onto a VM, then the VM went wrong, and now has a new VM and to general amazement and lack of interest, Perl 6 is finally here. All the others are still implemented in C, mostly on a Unix base, like Ruby, or on a JVM base, like Clojure and Scala. So they still have C like holes and there are frequent patches and updates to try to make them able to retain some water for a short time, while the "cyber criminals" make hundreds of millions. Anything else is "uncommercial" or "not viable for real world use". Borland totally dropped the ball and lost a nice little earner in Delphi, but it continues as Free Pascal and so on. Apple goes its own way, but has forgotten the truly innovative projects it had pre-NeXT, such as Dylan. There were real projects that were actually used for real work, like Oberon the OS, written in Oberon the language. Real pioneering work in UIs, such as Jef Raskin's machines, the original Mac and Canon Cat -- forgotten. People rhapsodise over the Amiga and forget that the planned OS, CAOS, to be as radical as the hardware, never made it out of the lab. Same, on a smaller scale, with the Acorn Archimedes. Despite that, of course, Lisp never went away. People still use it, but they keep their heads down and get on with it. Much the same applies to Smalltalk. Still there, still in use, still making real money and doing real work, but forgotten all the same. The Lisp Machines and Smalltalk boxes lost the workstation war. Unix won, and as history is written by the victors, now the alternatives are forgotten or dismissed as weird kooky toys of no serious merit. The senior Apple people didn't understand the essence of what they saw at PARC: they only saw the chrome. They copied the chrome, not the essence, and now all that *any* of us have is the chrome. We have GUIs, but on top of the nasty kludgy hacks of C and the like. A late-'60s skunkware project now runs the world, and the real serious research efforts to make something better, both before and after, are forgotten historical footnotes. Modern computers are a vast disappointment to me. We have no thinking machines. The Fifth Generation, Lisp, all that -- gone. What did we get instead? Like dinosaurs, the expensive high-end machines of the '70s and '80s didn't evolve into their successors. They were just replaced. First little cheapo 8-bits, not real or serious at all, although they were cheap and people did serious stuff with them because it's all they could afford. The early 8-bits ran semi-serious OSes such as CP/M, but when their descendants sold a thousand times more, those descendants weren't running descendants of that OS -- no, it and its creator died. CP/M evolved into a multiuser multitasking 386 OS that could run multiple MS-DOS apps on terminals, but it died. No, then the cheapo 8-bits thrived in the form of an 8/16-bit hybrid, the 8086 and 8088, and a cheapo knock-off of CP/M. This got a redesign into something grown-up: OS/2. Predictably, that died. So the hacked-together GUI for DOS got re-invigorated with an injection of OS/2 code, as Windows 3. That took over the world. The rivals - the Amiga, ST, etc? 680x0 chips, lots of flat memory, whizzy graphics and sound? All dead. Then Windows got re-invented with some OS/2 3 ideas and code, and some from VMS, and we got Windows NT. But the marketing men got to it and ruined its security and elegance, to produce the lipstick-and-high-heels Windows XP. That version, insecure and flakey with its terrible bodged-in browser, that, of course, was the one that sold. Linux got nowhere until it copied the XP model. The days of small programs, everything's a text file, etc. -- all forgotten. Nope, lumbering GUI apps, CORBA and RPC and other weird plumbing, huge complex systems, but it looks and works kinda like Windows and a Mac now so it looks like them and people use it. Android looks kinda like iOS and people use it in their billions. Newton? Forgotten. No, people have Unix in their pocket, only it's a bloated successor of Unix. The efforts to fix and improve Unix -- Plan 9, Inferno -- forgotten. A proprietary microkernel Unix-like OS for phones -- Blackberry 10, based on QNX -- not Androidy enough, and bombed. We have less and less choice, made from worse parts on worse foundations -- but it's colourful and shiny and the world loves it. That makes me despair. We have poor-quality tools, built on poorly-designed OSes, running on poorly-designed chips. Occasionally, fragments of older better ways, such as functional-programming tools, or Lisp-based development environments, are layered on top of them, but while they're useful in their way, they can't fix the real problems underneath. Occasionally someone comes along and points this out and shows a better way -- such as Curtis Yarvin's Urbit. Lisp Machines re-imagined for the 21st century, based on top of modern machines. But nobody gets it, and its programmer has some unpleasant and unpalatable ideas, so it's doomed. And the kids who grew up after C won the battle deride the former glories, the near-forgotten brilliance that we have lost. And it makes me want to cry sometimes, and I lash out in turn. I apologise unreservedly for my intemperance. I just wanted to try to explain why I did it. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
