Re: [ccp4bb] AW: [ccp4bb] 3D/Stereoscopic hardware options in 2025?

Thu, 27 Feb 2025 04:18:16 -0800 

Dear all,
you can get quad-buffered 3D stereo working under Linux with Nvidia emitter and glasses and a more recent Nvidia graphics card if the card supports the separate Nvidia bracket with the 3-pin mini-DIN socket, required to connect the emitter. 


However, more recent Nvidia drivers recognize the emitter (green light 
on it), but fail to activate it upon switching to 3D stereo! The reason 
is a bug, that Nvidia introduced with driver 530 (see bug report 
<https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/3d-vision-bug-in-530-30-02/248188>; 
there might come a future driver 570 without that bug). In order to get 
Nvidia 3D stereo working, I had to install driver 525 via the CUDA 
12.0.1 repository (see CUDA toolkit archive download site for 12.0.1 
<https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-12-0-1-download-archive>). I've also 
tried the stand-alone Nvidia-run-file installer for driver 525, but this 
didn't work. The xorg configuration file requires the usual 'Option 
"Stereo" "10"' entry for the Nvidia driver to use the Nvidia emitter. 
The main problem is probably to still get a monitor that supports Nvidia 
3D stereo.



So, I have a workstation under Rocky Linux 8 with an RTX A4000 graphics 
card connected to the 3-pin mini-DIN bracket and functioning Nvidia 3D 
stereo. However in our lab, I am the last one (aka "dinosaur") who uses 
3D stereo 😉.


Best regards,

Dirk

On 27.02.25 11:24, Oliver Einsle wrote:


Dear all, Hi Wulf!


I have to get in on this one, because I remember Juan Fontecilla-Camps 
**very** vividly recounting on how every muscle around his eyes hurt 
after doing cross- or wall-eyed stereo for a few hours. Also, the 
mirror glasses with a wood frame and a head strap that we had in some 
bottom drawer during my PhD time in Martinsried are quite reminiscent 
of an Apple vision pro in terms of long-term wearing comfort.



Alternatively, we are still happily running Linux, and with a little 
effort you can get stereo going reasonably well (even if the 
younglings these days show absolutely no interest in using it, btw).



What you need is a stereo-capable graphics card. We are still using 
approx.. 15 yr old Quadro FX3700 without much problems. You also need 
a desktop manager that allows to disable the “composite” extension 
(e.g. KDE) and a Linux driver that still has the 3D vision 
functionality and supports your card. Our current solution is to have 
a few designated Workstations running a recent OpenSuSE with KDE, and 
a patched driver for compatibility between the old card and the newer 
OS. There is some flicker I did not observe in the old days, but the 
system runs smoothly and stably in hardware stereo @120 Hz, both on 
the Asus and with Emitters.



This solution will not last forever, but stereo has become so much 
more useful again when looking at cryo-EM maps, so it would be great 
to see a viable solution coming back.


Best wishes,

Oliver.


*From: *CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on behalf of 
"Hughes, Jonathan" <jon.hug...@bot3.bio.uni-giessen.de>

*Reply to: *"Hughes, Jonathan" <jon.hug...@bot3.bio.uni-giessen.de>
*Date: *Thursday, 27. February 2025 at 11:02
*To: *"CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>
*Subject: *[ccp4bb] AW: [ccp4bb] 3D/Stereoscopic hardware options in 2025?


isn't the answer simple biology? almost everyone can squint (it's good 
for your eyes, btw), so with a bit of practice you can see structures 
in 3D with "cross-eyed stereo" dual images easily, especially with a 
wide screen.


cheers

jon


*Von:*CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> *Im Auftrag von 
*Goldman, Adrian

*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 27. Februar 2025 10:41
*An:* CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
*Betreff:* Re: [ccp4bb] 3D/Stereoscopic hardware options in 2025?


I went very old school (as in 1970s—1980s) and use side by side either 
with mirror glasses that I put on my face or indeed by making a double 
mirror system like we had at Yale with the ps2. Rather than having a 
finely machined device with anodised black aluminium and glass 
mirrors, I used cardboard and Mylar. It also works :)


Adrian

Sent from my iPhone

    On 27 Feb 2025, at 10:49, Pedro Matias <mat...@itqb.unl.pt> wrote:

    Hi Wulf,

    We never got our NVIDIA 3D to work with Windows 10, only with
    Windows 7. The Windows advantage is that the graphics cards are
    much cheaper than those for Linux.

    I believe there is a NVIDIA 3D Vision standalone driver that may
    work in Windows 11.

    Alternatively, my suggestion would be to use a PC disconnected
    from the internal institute network and keep running Windows 10 on
    it. File transfer would be a bit of an hassle but workable.

    Good luck & best regards,

    Pedro

    On 27/02/2025 07:05, Blankenfeldt, Wulf wrote:

        Dear all,

        I have just been shocked by our IT department’s announcement
        that they will force us into migration to Win11 very soon. I
        know I am a dinosaur, but I still use and love my old nvidia
        Quadro/Asus/shutter glasses combi (over 10 years old) for
        hardware stereo viewing of protein structures under Win10. I
        am afraid that this will simply not work anymore once I have
        been upgraded, since nvdia has disabled hardware stereo in its
        drivers long time ago.

        Personally, I cannot understand how modern structural biology
        can live without it and I would love to still be able view
        structures in “real” 3D.

        I know that the ccp4 community is graphics- and tech-savvy, I
        am therefore asking if you know of any modern day and
        established/sustainable hardware solution for 3D viewing in
        our favorite programs (Coot, PyMol, 
).

        Thank you in advance for your advice,

        Wulf

        *Prof. Wulf Blankenfeldt*
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