David, > Warren: why should a 120 Hz LCD monitor with the nVidia USB > emitter/glasses require a Quadro card? The system requirements for > GeForce 3D Vision on Windows lists many GeForce cards as being > supported:
Because if you dig a bit deeper, you'll discover that GeForce cards only support full-screen, DirectX-based stereo 3D -- that works for Windows-only games and movies, but it doesn't work at all for cross-platform scientific applications written in OpenGL. Please understand that, for presumed business reasons, nVidia has for years maintained a policy that OpenGL quad-buffer stereo 3D requires a Quadro card. ATI has done exactly the same thing with the FireGL. This isn't so much about innate hardware limitations, but rather reflects deliberate market segmentation enforced at the driver level. It is what it is, and as far as I know, nVidia's policy has not changed. But today the situation is further complicated by the fact that synchronization for 120 Hz LCDs requires not only driver cooperation, but also a new USB-based IR-sync emitter, which itself requires a new proprietary driver also controlled by nVidia. (FYI: The analog stereo 3D sync signal / DIN connector used for CRTs and projectors has proven not to work for digital 120 Hz LCDs). > I should think it unlikely that the hardware requirements under Linux or > MacOS would differ drastically, if and when those OSes are covered by a > driver. Sure, but assuming nVidia's policy remains unchanged, then you should reasonably expect nVidia's 3D Vision drivers to only enable OpenGL stereo 3D on Quadro cards *if* such drivers are eventually released for the Mac. That is how things have always worked on Windows and Linux, so why would nVidia's rules for the Mac be any different? But even if 3D Vision driver support were available for the Mac (and so far, no such intent-to-support has even been announced), the only Quadro option available for the Mac costs $1,600 more than an entry-level Quadro card for Windows or Linux. Cheers, Warren > -----Original Message----- > From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > David J. Schuller > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:30 AM > To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Best 3D stereo combination for Linux > > Warren: why should a 120 Hz LCD monitor with the nVidia USB > emitter/glasses require a Quadro card? The system requirements for > GeForce 3D Vision on Windows lists many GeForce cards as being > supported: > > http://www.nvidia.com/object/GeForce_3D_Vision_Requirements.html > > GeForce GTX 200 series > ... > > Geforce 9 series > ... > > Geforce 8 series > ... > > > I should think it unlikely that the hardware requirements under Linux or > MacOS would differ drastically, if and when those OSes are covered by a > driver. > > > - > ======================================================================= > You can't possibly be a scientist if you mind people > thinking that you're a fool. - Wonko the Sane > ======================================================================= > David J. Schuller > modern man in a post-modern world > MacCHESS, Cornell University > schul...@cornell.edu > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 01:31:12 -0700 > > >From: Warren DeLano <war...@delsci.com> > > >Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Best 3D stereo combination for Mac OS X > > today > > >To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > > > > > > Danny, > > > > > > Thank you (and Harry and Dirk) for pointing out the > > > after-market PNY card -- I wasn't aware of that > > > option. > > > > > > However, it is worth noting that PC users can access > > > stereo 3D (via "3D Vision" IR emitter & glasses) > > > with a $139 Quadro 300-series card whereas Mac users > > > must spend 12X more for an ultra high-end > > > 4000-series card (which will only work IF they > > > happen to own a compatible Mac Pro model). > > > Unfortunately, all the GPU power of an expensive > > > ultra-high-end-card provides little (if any) benefit > > > if all you're running is Coot, PyMOL, CCP4mg... > > > > > > Anyway, my point is that there is presently a > > > significant (and possibly increasing) lack of parity > > > for the Mac versus the other platforms with respect > > > to stereo 3D. Furthermore, because of nVidia's > > > introduction of their proprietary USB-based emitter > > > (which syncs the 120 Hz LCDs), it isn't yet clear > > > whether or these displays will work only on Windows, > > > only on Windows and Linux, or indeed across all > > > three platforms. > > > > > > Personally, I would want to know the answer to that > > > question before spending $4-6k+ USD on a > > > Quadro-equipped Mac Pro! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Warren > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Danny Smith [mailto:smi...@omrf.ouhsc.edu] > > > Sent: Tue 6/30/2009 4:03 PM > > > To: Warren DeLano > > > Cc: Danny G Smith; CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > > > Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Best 3D stereo combination for > > > Mac OS X today > > > > > > Warren, > > > > > > Thank you very much for the quick reply. I didn't > > > see it directly > > > with the mac, but this link still has it at the > > > store, > > > > > > http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/BusinessCustom.woa/9554008/ wa > /PSLIDfind=Quadro+FX+4800+for+Mac&wosid=7Q4ITeYWEwd92YhZCy32JoVJnH4 > > > . It is very expensive at $1,746.00. I also found > > > this link, > > > > > http://www3.pny.com/NVIDIA-Quadro-FX-4800-For-Mac-P2815C409.aspx > > > . It looks like on that page that it is tested with > > > Mac OS X v10.5.7, > > > on MacPro3,1 or MacPro4,1 or later - Note: MacPro1,1 > > > and MacPro2,1 are > > > not compatible. I was just hoping to find a cheaper > > > card. It does > > > make me want to do more research with our sales rep. > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > Danny G. Smith > > > Sr. Programmer / Analyst > > > Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation > > > 825 N.E. 13th Street M.S. 11, Room E210.1 > > > Oklahoma City, OK 73104 > > > Phone: (405)271-8001 ext. 35535 Cell: > > > (405)-202-6691 > > > > > > On Jun 30, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Warren DeLano wrote: > > > > > > > Danny, > > > > > > > > Last I checked, Apple dropped the Quadro option > > > from the Mac Pro, > > > > and a > > > > quick check on Apple.com seems to confirm that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/home/shop_mac/family/ > > > > mac_pro > > > > > > > > Lacking indications to the contrary, we can only > > > conclude that OpenGL > > > > stereo 3D support has an uncertain future on the > > > Mac, whereas nVidia > > > > appears fully committed to supporting it under > > > Windows XP, Vista, and > > > > Linux. > > > > > > > > 120 Hz LCDs are very close to being, but are not > > > quite yet, a viable > > > > option. Hopelly that will change in a matter of > > > weeks, however, they > > > > will likely require a quadro card, 3D vision > > > emitter, and an > > > > appropriate > > > > driver from nVidia. Mac support for 120 Hz seems > > > unlikely unless > > > > nVidia > > > > and Apple deliberately get together to create a > > > joint solution. Due > > > > to > > > > proprietary aspects of each component (Mac OpenGL > > > drivers, nVidia > > > > emitters), this isn't something either Apple or > > > nVidia could > > > > accomplish > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > Zalman LCDs can do stereo 3D (with reduced > > > vertical resolution) but > > > > they > > > > require software modifications or a Quadro card > > > with the updated > > > > windows > > > > or linux driver. Not all software packages > > > support the Zalman display > > > > on the Mac yet. > > > > > > > > My view is this: if having the best stereo 3D is > > > important, then go > > > > Linux or Windows -- but wait until the 120 LCD > > > solution is released by > > > > nVidia. If having a Mac is important, then expect > > > limited access to > > > > stereo 3D technologies. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Warren > > >
