Then it's clear what the problem is: whichever program created your file
put the wrong space group number in (or copied it from an input file).
For I2 it must be '4005' not '5', no question.  This is the number found
in the $CLIBD/syminfo.lib entry under 'symbol ccp4':

begin_spacegroup
number  5
basisop x,y,-x+z
symbol ccp4 4005
symbol Hall ' C 2y (x,y,-x+z)'
symbol xHM  'I 1 2 1'
symbol old  'I 1 2 1' 'I 2'
symbol laue '-P 2y' '2/m'
symbol patt '-I 2y' '2/m'
symbol pgrp ' P 2y' '2'
hklasu ccp4 'k>=0 and (l>0 or (l=0 and h>=0))'
mapasu ccp4 0<=x<-1; 0<=y<-1; 0<=z<-1
mapasu zero 0<=x<=1/2; 0<=y<1/2; 0<=z<1
mapasu nonz 0<=x<=1/2; 0<=y<1/2; 0<=z<1
cheshire 0<=x<=1/2; 0<=y<=0; 0<=z<=1/2
symop x,y,z
symop -x,y,-z
cenop x,y,z
cenop x+1/2,y+1/2,z+1/2
end_spacegroup

so it's clearly a programming bug.  CCP4 requires that I2 be numbered
4005 to distinguish it from C2 otherwise the confusion you observed will
ensue!  This is because in the CCP4 library calls the number takes
precedence over the name, since space-group names used by CCP4 have
historically tended to vary according to whether or not apostrophes,
spaces and/or additional '1's are present!, but the number has remained
unique.  However CIF files should observe the ITC(A) numbering/naming
convention, shown under 'number' and 'symbol xHM' in syminfo.lib,
because in ITC(A) the name takes precedence over the number.  So there
the number should be converted to '5', and of course in PDB files only
the ITC(A) name is used.

Cheers

-- Ian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ethan Merritt [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 11 June 2009 16:21
> To: Ian Tickle
> Cc: [email protected]; Phil Evans
> Subject: Re: mtz2various is broken [ was: Another pointless question ]
> 
> On Thursday 11 June 2009, Ian Tickle wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ethan Merritt [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > Sent: 11 June 2009 00:35
> > > To: Ian Tickle
> > > Cc: [email protected]; Phil Evans
> > > Subject: Re: mtz2various is broken [ was: Another pointless
question ]
> > >
> > > On Tuesday 09 June 2009 02:45:41 Ian Tickle wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ethan - that's odd it works for me (CCP4 6.1.0) unless of course
it
> > got
> > > > broken recently in 6.1.1:
> > >
> > > I see the same problem in both 6.0.2 and 6.1.1.
> > > I don't have a copy of 6.1.0 around to test.
> >
> > I just compiled 6.1.1 mtz2various.f with 6.1.1 CCP4 libs & I get
> > identical results (i.e. log & CIF files) with 6.1.0.  Differences
> > between the source versions are minor (related only to CIF line
length).
> > Also there are minor formatting differences betweeen 6.0.2 & 6.1.x,
but
> > symmetry info is identical.  So it's not a version issue, but must
be
> > what's in the MTZ file header.  Have you looked at the file header,
does
> > it contain the right symmetry operators?  Most programs including
> > mtzdump don't bother to print these out but blithely assume that
they
> > are consistent: the mtztona4 program writes out the complete file
header
> > in ascii, or you can just open the MTZ file in a text editor (as
long as
> > it doesn't mind the non-ascii characters and the long lines!).
Here's
> > the relevant bit of mine:
> >
> > CELL    70.3025   68.7834   93.7125   90.0000   94.1913   90.0000
> > SORT    1   2   3   0   0
> > SYMINF   4  2 I  4005 'I2        ' PG2
> > SYMM X,  Y,  Z
> > SYMM -X,  Y,  -Z
> > SYMM X+1/2,  Y+1/2,  Z+1/2
> > SYMM -X+1/2,  Y+1/2,  -Z+1/2
> > END
> >
> > If I change 'I2' to 'I121' to look like yours I still get the same
> > results, so that's not the problem.
> 
> My mtz file contains
>  CELL   148.6099   98.3798  251.9687   90.0000   90.3258   90.0000
>  SORT    1   2   3   0   0
>  SYMINF   4 2 I     5                 'I121'   PG2
>  SYMM X,  Y,  Z
>  SYMM -X,  Y,  -Z
>  SYMM X+1/2,  Y+1/2,  Z+1/2
>  SYMM -X+1/2,  Y+1/2,  -Z+1/2
>  RESO 0.0000607290094194   0.1371708661317825
> 
> So there is a difference, but not the expected one.
> My mtz file has exactly the info that should go into the cif headers,
> including the space group number of the standard setting: 5.
> But mtzdmp and refmac, etc, do manage to find and report the
spacegroup
> as 4005 from this same file.
> Could there be two conflicting spacegroup numbers stored in the
header?
> 
> For what it's worth. I see the same behavior on files created by
> pointless (re-indexed from C2), files created directly by
> mosflm/scala/truncate, and files merged by CAD.
> 
>       Ethan
> 
> 
> > >
> > > Your version fails to convert space group "4005" to "5".
> >
> > True, but at least it gets the space group name and the symmetry
> > operators right!  I think the conversion from '4005' to '5' in your
case
> > is not intentional!
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > -- Ian
> >
> > >
> > > I am running 6.1.1 built from the source tarball.
> > > This version does convert "4005" to "5", but then it makes the
> > > mistake in subroutine wcifhr(mtzin,iun,dbhead) of calling
> > >    C--- Change short H-M symbol to full CIF-style symbol:
> > >         call MSYMLB3(24,nspgrx,spgrnx_cif,spgrnx_cifs,pgnamx,
> > >      &                  nsympx,nsym,rsym)
> > >
> > > which looks up the space group name and symops based on the
converted
> > > number.
> > > Having done that, it now thinks the space group is C2, even though
> > > the cell parameters and reflection indices are not correct for
that
> > > setting.
> > >
> > > So both versions are broken, but in different ways.
> > >
> > > I have not been able to track down which routine in which source
file
> > > was changed.  But since I see the same problem in 6.0.2, I'm not
sure
> > > there
> > > _is_ a difference in the source files I have on hand.  Is it
possible
> > that
> > > this was partially fixed for 6.1.0 but then reverted because of
the
> > > problem you
> > > report, leaving it broken again?
> > >
> > >   Ethan
> > >
> > >
> > > > First an extract from the mtz2various log file:
> > > >
> > > >  * Cell Dimensions : (obsolete - refer to dataset cell
dimensions
> > above)
> > > >
> > > >    70.3025   68.7834   93.7125   90.0000   94.1913   90.0000
> > > >
> > > >  *  Resolution Range :
> > > >
> > > >     0.00030    0.24999     (     58.124 -      2.000 A )
> > > >
> > > >  * Sort Order :
> > > >
> > > >       1     2     3     0     0
> > > >
> > > >  * Space group = 'I2' (number     4005)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Then the CIF output:
> > > >
> > > > ##########
> > > > #        #
> > > > #  CELL  #
> > > > #        #
> > > > ##########
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _cell.entry_id     junk
> > > > _cell.length_a              70.3025
> > > > _cell.length_b              68.7834
> > > > _cell.length_c              93.7125
> > > > _cell.angle_alpha           90.0000
> > > > _cell.angle_beta            94.1913
> > > > _cell.angle_gamma           90.0000
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ##############
> > > > #            #
> > > > #  SYMMETRY  #
> > > > #            #
> > > > ##############
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _symmetry.entry_id     junk
> > > > _symmetry.Int_Tables_number      4005
> > > > _symmetry.space_group_name_H-M     'I 1 2 1'
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ####################
> > > > #                  #
> > > > #  SYMMETRY_EQUIV  #
> > > > #                  #
> > > > ####################
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > loop_
> > > >  _symmetry_equiv.id
> > > >  _symmetry_equiv.pos_as_xyz
> > > >     1 'X,  Y,  Z'
> > > >     2 '-X,  Y,  -Z'
> > > >     3 'X+1/2,  Y+1/2,  Z+1/2'
> > > >     4 '-X+1/2,  Y+1/2,  -Z+1/2'
> > > >
> > > > The only thing I see is different is that your space group is
shown
> > as
> > > > 'I121' whereas mine is just 'I2'
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > -- Ian
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Ethan Merritt
> > > > > Sent: 08 June 2009 21:56
> > > > > To: [email protected]; Phil Evans
> > > > > Subject: mtz2various is broken [ was: Another pointless
question ]
> > > > >
> > > > > On Friday 08 May 2009 10:36:28 Phil Evans wrote:
> > > > > > I2 is always an alternative setting to C2, & Pointless (by
> > default)
> > > > > > will choose this (since 1.2.12 I think) if it gives a
smaller
> > beta
> > > > > > angle than the C2 setting
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am assured that this is the IUCr approved "standard",
along
> > with
> > > > > > always setting primitive orthorhombic space groups with a <
b <
> > c
> > > > even
> > > > > > if this makes eg space group 18 P 2 21 21. However, there
are
> > some
> > > > > > "old-fashioned" programs :-) which don't like this (arp/warp
at
> > > > > > present for example, though I believe this will change in
> > future),
> > > > so
> > > > > > Pointless does offer the option SETTING SYMMETRY-BASED, also
an
> > > > option
> > > > > > in the ccp4i GUI, to choose the "reference" setting and C2
> > > > >
> > > > > A follow-up to this discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > I finished refinement, and I am ready to deposit with the PDB.
> > > > > However, when I went to produce a *.cif file for deposition, I
> > found
> > > > > that mtz2various is confused by the I2 setting.   It kept the
cell
> > > > > edges and angles from I2, but created a *.cif output file that
> > claims
> > > > > the cell is C2 and it lists the symmetry operators for C2.
> > > > >
> > > > > I manually corrected the header records in the *.cif file, but
the
> > > > > program itself should be fixed as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > I ran:
> > > > >
> > > > > ### CCP4 6.1: MTZ2VARIOUS              version 6.1 :
12/11/08##
> > > > >
> > > > > The mtz2various log file contains the line:
> > > > >
> > > > >  * Space group = 'I121' (number     5)
> > > > >
> > > > > By contrast, running mtzdmp on the input file it is converting
> > reports
> > > > >
> > > > >  * Space group = 'I 1 2 1' (number     4005)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >       cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > >               Ethan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Keeping the obliquity of the cell small has some advantages:
it
> > may
> > > > > > make map viewing easier, and improve the accuracy of map
> > > > interpolation
> > > > > > in programs which are a bit casual about doing this properly
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 8 May 2009, at 17:45, Ethan Merritt wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was very surprised recently when a run of pointless
chose to
> > > > > > > transform my data into spacegroup I2  [*].  Here are
excerpts
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > > output log:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%
> > > > > > > Selecting space group I 1 2 1 as there is a single space
group
> > > > with
> > > > > > > the highest score
> > > > > > > Space group confidence (= Sqrt(Score * (Score -
> > NextBestScore)))
> > > > > > > =     0.37
> > > > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%
> > > > > > > The input crystal system is C-centred monoclinic
> > > > > > > (Cell:   291.8  98.38  148.6        90  120.3     90)
> > > > > > > The crystal system chosen for output is body-centred
> > monoclinic
> > > > > > > (Cell:   148.6  98.38    252        90  90.33     90)
> > > > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Notice that the log file output doesn't say, for instance,
> > > > > > > "you might want to consider the non-standard setting I2".
> > > > > > > It says "there is a single space group with the highest
> > score",
> > > > > > > and proceeds to convert away from the standard setting C2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am not complaining, as in fact this solved a bit of a
> > mystery
> > > > for
> > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > The diffraction images had originally been indexed as
I222.
> > > > > > > Integration
> > > > > > > proceeded without a hitch, but the data failed miserably
to
> > scale
> > > > > > > acceptably.
> > > > > > > Running pointless immediately made clear what the problem
had
> > > > been.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Instead I am merely curious.
> > > > > > > What are the criteria that pointless uses to decide such a
> > thing?
> > > > > > > In this case the beta angle is _very_ near to 90.  I have
fed
> > > > other
> > > > > > > C2 data sets to pointless and not seen even a mention of
I2 in
> > the
> > > > > > > output.  Is the "score" mentioned in the log file some
> > weighted
> > > > > > > function that
> > > > > > > says the closer beta  approaches 90 after re-indexing, the
> > more
> > > > that
> > > > > > > re-indexing is preferred?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Ethan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [*] Not least because I had never previously encountered
"I2"
> > as
> > > > the
> > > > > > >    name of a spacegroup.  Live and learn.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ethan A Merritt
> > > > > Biomolecular Structure Center
> > > > > University of Washington, Seattle 98195-7742



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