----- Original Message -----
From: "Ritu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: Mindless and Heartless
>
> Dan Minette wrote:
>
> > He didn't. Zimmy has been one since birth. He and Gautam
> > are in full agreement on this point. If you want, I'll quote
> > the relevant sections of Zimmy's posts.
>
> I just read all of Zimmy's posts in this thread and couldn't find any
> statement which could be construed to mean that the only reason Perle
> and Wolfie get attention/are known to people is because they are Jews.
> So, yes, I would like if you could point out the relevant portions of
> his mails.
It wasn't that exactly, it was the neo-con/Jewish link. Let me quote what
I think is relevant:
<quote one>
> From the choices you've made today -- ad hominem
> attacks, guilt by association, putting words into Cindy
> Sheehan's mouth, I draw the conclusion that you and your
> kind are scared shitless of her and the attention she's
> bringing to this completely unjustified war of
> aggression
So let me put my big Jewish mouth into this portion of the debate. I agree
completely with Gautam here. She is saying there is a Jewish conspiracy to
help
Israel. That good American boys have died in the service of this
conspiracy.
This is precisely the uber anti-Semitic argument that has been around for
as
long as Jews have been persecuted and murdered by Christians. It is Jewish
bankers controlling the world bs, the blood libel (Jews are supposed to
kill
innocent Christians for blood used in their rituals.). You make this
argument you
are an anti-Semite. Note that you can hold this belief and still be nice to
individuals ("some of my best friends are Jewish") but stating this belief
you
put yourself in the same camp as the monsters who have done horrible deeds
in
the past.
Let me ask you Nick. Do you think that we are in this war to protect
Israel?
Are we in this war at the behest of a Jewish cabal? If not then this view
must
be repudiated. Because being against the war is not enough. I can be
against
the war because I want all Muslims to continue to suffer under oppressive
murderous regimes or because I think women should be suppressed. Do you
side with
me if I hold these views? If you are in contact with Cindy please tell her
how
hurtful her remarks are to Jews like myself who are not neocons. Please
explain her the provinence of her views. Maybe while she is on her vigil
she can
read "Constantine's Cross" to see how arguments like hers have existed for
over a thousand years and have been used to persecute and murder Jews.
<end quote one>
<quote two>
> Remember, she said "Israel," which is NOT universally equivalent to or
> representative of Judaism. I believe that there is no shortage of
> observant Jews who consider the modern nation-state of Israel to be goy,
> and not the modern equivalent of ancient Israel, the people of God.
No good. This is the standard anti-Semitic disclaimer. I hate Israel not
the
Jews.But who is manipulating the US to help Israel. American neocon Jews.
As to how Jews view this type of remark. Trust me; we know anti-Semitism
when
we see it.
<end quote two>
<quote three>
> However, as (IIRC) Nick pointed out, she didn't say anything about
> Jews, but about Israel, which is a *nation*, not an ethnic group.
So let me get this straight. She blames the Neocons (many of whom are Jews;
the movement was founded by Jewish intellectuals. So the neocons (who are
Jews)
got the president to support the war to aid Israel (by the way in what way
does this war aid Israel?)
Once again the argument that I am against Israel not the Jews is usually a
copout for anti-Semitism.
<end quote three>
That is the core of the argument: the neocon caused us to go to war for the
sake of Israel is a anti-Semitic argument. Gautam, Zimmy, and I are in
full agreement on this.
Part of the difference between your perspective and Gautam is that he is a
big big fan of US foreign policy details....being in the field. Thus, he
has been aware, for years, of the various movement, who are in them, etc.
Since he was attracted to the ideas of the neo-cons a while ago (maybe 6
years back, Gautam?), he was fairly familiar with them.
As you can imagine, there are a lot of professors of political science in
the US. While the numbers of undersecretaries of defense are fewer, there
are still a handful. Although they have much more influence than you or I
on US policy, they are not key movers.
>From the start, a number of people complained about their undue influence
in the and on the administration. IIRC, this started before 9-11. Doubts
were cast on their loyalty to the US in these complaints, with insinuations
that their true loyalty was to Israel. Given what happened to the Japanese
in WWII, you can see how this is a nasty claim to make, and why Jewish
people would be very uncomfortable with it. Liberal Jews, who strongly
disagree with neocons, are very uncomfortable with it.
Turning back to where you got your information, the question is not so much
why someone who gives an interview in Vanity Fair is well known, its why an
undersecretary of defense would be in a position where Vanity Fair would
think he's newsworthy. His profile was originally raised by his opponents,
with anti-Semitic innuendo.
Dan M.
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