----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Denton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Gulags


On 6/13/05, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Denton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Gulags
>
> Right away,  I wanted to re-establish what the Geneva convention actually
> says.
>
>
>
> >The Geneva Conventions does specify how to handle POWs and all other
> >prisoners.
>
> The relevent section of the covention, from an earlier post of mine:
>
>
> A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons
> belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the
> power
> of the enemy:
>
> 1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as
> members
> of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
>
> 2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps,
> including
> those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the
> conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this
> territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps,
> including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following
> conditions:
>
> (a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
>
> (b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
>
> (c) That of carrying arms openly;
>
> (d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and
> customs of war.
>
> AQ doesn't qualify under these provisions.  Particularly clear is the
fact
> that they do not comply with b.
>
> The Geneva convention is a treaty between governments.  It does not cover
> citizens of a country fighting in another country without clearly joining
> the military or militia of that other country and demonstrating it by
> wearing uniforms.
>
> Dan M.

You are focusing on one section in several Geneva Conventions.  I will
repeat what I have above.

>Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Additional
>Protocol II apply to prisoners regardless of the status of the legal
>standing of their organization. Common Article 3 also applies to
>government clashes with armed insurgent groups.

In the Geneva Convention of 1949, I find.

<quote>

Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected
by it. Nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of
a belligerent State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be
regarded as protected persons while the State of which they are nationals
has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are.

<end quote>

That excludes virtually all of the members of AQ.  I think if they were
Iranian, they might be covered, so that's a reasonable point.  I see the
same clause in the 4th Geneva convention, so the protected person status
there appears to be the same.

If you see a contrary definition of a protected person from the one I
listed, I'd like to know where it is.  I tried to go to the obvious place
to find these definitions, but I realize treaties can have things in not so
obvious places.

Dan M.


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