-----Original Message----- From: Russell Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Trent Shipley wrote: >> Whether the participants, as a population, are irrelligious or very religious >> cannot be answered without more detailed information. Also, framing the >> question an "either irreligious or very religious" is to put forth a false >> dichotomy. Nevertheless, the participanting population surely were in some >> meaningful sense Muslim. Therefore, understanding the desecration of corpses >> as an expression of hatred for Americans even at the cost of disgracing >> oneself before God must be understood as a reasonable interpretation of the >> recent events in Faluja. >Ummm - the fact that they were waving banners of their local Imam and >the head Imam for the whole region probably gives clues. >I gather that the footage wasn't shown very much in the USA, but what >our late night news showed made me want to turn the place to glass... It was a little confronting, I agree, but please, take a few steps back from that big red button. If, lets say, we were invaded by the newly elected Indonesian Islamic Government, on the basis that we were supporting terrorism in the form of East Timor and West Papua. (a more sound basis than our current debacle in Iraq btw, at least some facts !) Do you think you would just roll over and play dead? Or do you think you might be protesting in the streets? And when your brother was shot dead in front of you, you would just shrug your shoulders and head off to the pub for a beer? Or might you be tempted to dig through the rubble of your house to find that old 22 and take out a few of the invading Indo bastards.. You might even sow an Aussie flag on your hat, to make a point, or, if you viewed it as a religious based war (Muslims vs Christians) you might take a cross. Or just a Southern Cross. I doubt the Indonesian media would go to great lengths to explain the difference. Its may be easy for us, in our comfortable living rooms, to see this as some kind of geopolitical game. I doubt it is quite the same take that you would get in the dust and ruins of Baghdad. Its probably pretty personal over there. Do you think people run in front of US tanks, with rocket eqquiped Blackhawks hovering overhead cos its a bit of a lark? I dont. I am also fascinated how, despite any evidence at all, Iraq has suddely become the root af all Terrorism. Saddam planned 9/11 did he? I must have missed something. Our Prime Minister denys that our involvement in Iraq heightens any chance of terrorism. Yet removing our troops is giving into terrorists? Umm. Funny how thay have managed to shift the agenda so cleverly. So it isn't about terrorism, and yet it is. I dont like being manipulated like that. Yes, there are terrorists in Iraq, probably a shit load more than there were a year ago. Lets not mix the issues. We are just as responsible for this as Allah. When you invade peoples countries, they tend to get angry. We would get just as angry. But somehow its not OK for them to do that? So when your children are killed by a misplaced US bomb, you are just supposed to like it? Or perhaps in you grief and horror, you might fall back on the only social structure that remains in what used to be your country. Like maybe, in Iraq's case, religion. And as it happens, thats Islam. We are being fed bullshit. Invading Iraq was a mistake. You cant champion democracy and freedom and then fuck over peoples countries just cos it makes you feel good. I supported the Afhgan Invasion. Only just, but it seemed a valid response. Iraq was not only immoral but just plain stupid, plain dumbfuck stupid. How can we be surprised that the Iraqi people see it as Western Imperalist Agression. It is. We want to impose our will on Iraq, set an example for the Middle East.. Hands up those who would enjoy having their kids killed as an "example"? Yea, my son would have loved this new democracy if he had survived the bombings. Of course they are angry... pissed off, half crazed angry. So, sorry Russell, I was not having a go at you, this is a blurt of anger directed at the mindfuck our governments and the media are trying to pull on us, not you. I shared your anger over people been torn apart on TV. Its not a good thing. I dont think anyone in Iraq thinks so either. Sadly, its not just on TV for them. Nor I guess is it so for the family of the soldiers who suffered so. But I dont think the big red button will help. Unless we do the whole job and nuke it all from orbit. And if that happens, well, I will be on the streets with my 22 shooting innocent people, just cos they came from the country that did that. Thats how stupid it would be. Andrew
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