--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Erik Reuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I suspect JDG is taunting you, Fool. Remember, he liked to
> provoke Jeroen and then complain to the listowners when Jeroen
> reacted. Recently, JDG posted his silly whining about how he thinks
> there are a bunch of atheists here who are attacking him. Now he
> posts something that he knows you will react to. I guess he is
> hoping you will post something that he can complain to the
> listowners about and get you warned or banned.

Uhhhh.... No.  On several counts.

I did not post that "there are a bunch of atheists here who are 
attacking me."   I posted that there are *some* atheists (or more 
accurately, some who are hostile to organized religion) here who seem 
incapable of discussing religion in a civil or serious manner.   I 
noted that this was in contrast to the absence of examples of Brin-
L'ers of faith who seemed incapable of discussing atheisim in a civil 
or serious manner.  Moreover, I did also state that I think the 
collective effect of this uncivil behavior from the "atheists" has 
made Brin-L into an environment that I would consider "hostile" to a 
religious person, and indeed, it has made Brin-L into a community 
that I would feel uncomfortable inviting fellow people of faith to 
join.

I also have not approached the List-Owners about this issue in 
general, nor about any one person in specific, regarding this issue.  
Rather, in the spirit of this List, I attempted to initiate a 
discussion by the members of the Community about what I felt was a 
Community problem.   Namely that certain posters were not responding 
to certain topic areas in a civil and serious manner, and the 
consequences I felt this was having for our Community. 

I will concede that I have been somewhat disappointed by the fact 
that very few people have spoken up to affirm that the behavior of 
several "atheists" on this List has been out-of-line in terms of 
respecting the people of faith who are also members of this 
community. :(   Still, this was not entirely unsurprising, as the 
Community has always preferred to rely upon self-correction of 
behavior detrimental to the List, and has always been slow to build 
the critical mass of opinion towards censuring or even most 
drasticly, taking action, against another List Member.   I am sure 
that it also doesn't help that we no longer have Jo Anne Bird around 
to "ding" listmembers who step out of line.  Still, I think that part 
of the great Brin-L experiment is to become self-regulating in the 
interests of creating our own little on-line civilization, without 
resorting to the use of moderators.  I think that raising my concerns 
that the uncivil actions of certain List-Members were having a 
detrimental effect upon the Community was an entirely appropriate 
course of action.

As for this particular, I read it today and found it intriguing.  
Moreover, I noticed that it directly considered a very recent Brin-L 
discussion, namely the role of miracles in determining religious 
belief.  Moreover, this article was written by a fairly respected 
intellectual who is generally considered to be somewhat left-wing.  
Thus, I decided to recommend it to the List with the entirely 
subversive thought that I might present a golden opportunity for the 
aforementioned atheists to engage in discussion of Easterbrook's 
proposition with civility and intellectual seriousness.

I hope that clarifies my actions of the past two weeks or so.

I'll leave the actual reactions to this discussion-starter to speak 
for themselves to the List Members. 

JDG

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