> Not all religions. And please don't think that all people who call > themselves Christians are part of the same religion.
Erik replied:
I could just as well say, please don't call yourself Christian if you don't want me to think you are irrational or extremist. Guilt by association. There are and have been MANY irrational, cruel, and extremist Christians.
Just as there have been many irrational, cruel, and extremist Democrats, Republicans, Free Speech advocates...
Personally, I don't like to associate myself with groups that have such a bad history and such a large number of irrational people. While there are certainly some worthwhile things in most religions, I think they are far outweighed by the extremism and irrationality that inevitably seem to infest them. Apparently, you do not. To me, that says something about you. I reserve my right to judge you on that, and apparently so do some others here. Now, I think you have a lot of good qualities :-) and I don't mean to imply that you are evil just because of your choice of associations. But I think you should expect to sometimes be judged by those you associate yourself with. If you are discriminated against or persecuted, then you have been wronged and I certainly don't advocate you take that lying down. But what Fool and William have been writing is far from persecution.
I don't think it's persecution. I've just always lived by the motto "Minds are like parachutes; they function best when open." They are simply being completely closed-minded about religion, and judging every religious person based on a stereotype. Southern Baptists could be farther from Unitarian Universalists if they were from different planets; Shinto has as much in common with Roman Catholicism as air-hockey has with tic-tac-toe. Southern Baptists and Roman Catholics are perhaps closer than any of the other two categories I've mentioned, but even they disagree on any number of points. Any time you judge someone or something based on a stereotype, you are ignoring the fact that every person is an individual and stereotypes are rarely (although occasionally) accurate.
Sure, you can say that many of class x do a certain thing, so maybe it's reasonable to assume that anyone from class x will do that thing. But by that reasoning we get people who think that since many African-Americans sell drugs, all African-Americans are drug dealers, which is obviously not true. Or how about, since most Americans are more conservative than most Europeans, then it's safe to assume that any American is a supporter of Bush. The individual is not always indicative of the class.
Let's take a look at the general class of fans of science fiction. There are some fanatics who say that the only good science fiction is Star Trek. There are extremists who say the only good science fiction ever written was Babylon 5. jms of B5 fame reports about a science fiction fan who had a very different definition of what science fiction is:
I was watching a focus group once where an audience
member, during testing, said he didn't like a given show because it "wasn't
science fiction."
Upon being asked by the group facilitator what he would consider to be good SF,
he replied, very earnestly, "Power Rangers." This is in no way or shape an
exaggeration or distortion. That's what he said.
None of these three positions are representative of the majority of science fiction fans. But it's the extremists like this who get all the press. And it's the irrational types that are most likely to be extremists.
Do you think that the Watergate scandal reflects on everyone who has ever been a Republican? It was certainly a bad thing that was done by some Republicans, but can you say that because some irrational Republican extremists broke into a hotel room to steal info, that all Republicans are thieves? That is the same kind of reasoning that says that because some high-profile religious extremist idiots like Fred Phelps think it's ok to gay bash, that all religious people are anti-gay. That would completely ignore the Lutherans (ELCA, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) and many other Christian denominations which allows openly gay ordained ministers, not to mention non-Christian religions that have no problem at all with homosexuality.
I would agree that some religious people are extremists. I would disagree that most are. Certainly most of the people on this list who have stated that they are religious don't seem to be extremists (note that I said "most"). Most of the religious people here on Brin-l seem to be more than happy to discuss their beliefs and philosphies without giving a blanket condemnation of anyone who doesn't believe as they do. I don't think any self-described Christian on this list has said that they think evolution is bunk (I may be wrong on that, as I'm sure I haven't read every single post by every single member ever on this list...).
So just as it's an incorrect stereotype to say that all science fiction fans like Star Trek, and just as it's an incorrect stereotype to say all African-Americans are criminals, it's an incorrect stereotype to say that all religious people are irrational extremists. And anytime I hear anyone equating all science fiction fans with Trekkies, I try to help them see how incorrect they are, and how irrational that idea is. And anytime I see someone discriminating against any race simply due to color of skin, I try to help them see how incorrect they are and how irrational they are being. And anytime I hear you or The Fool or William or anyone else saying that all religious people are irrational, or extremist, or evil, I will point out to you or them how irrational you are being.
No offense intended. It happens to everyone, every once in a while.
Reggie Bautista
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