Chris, Has there been any more internal discussion or progress on "overflow:overlay" support being brought back? If not, can you make suggestions for how this subject might be promoted? Discussion here ( https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6090) has been shut down unfortunately and I'm afraid this thread is dark now too.
Justin On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 6:14 PM Justin Mayfield <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Thanks for the suggestion, Unfortunately this does not seem ready for > primetime in my initial test. For this to work as I need, I have to > disable my custom scrollbars as they are always treated like non-overlay > scrollbars (ie. they impinge when visible no matter what). So disabling my > custom scrollbar (which I really don't want to do, but could live with) > results in a flashing scrollbar whenever my content updates. Hopefully > this is just a bug that will be worked out soon. Attached video showing > flashing scrollbar whenever a new paint occurs (note: not hovered for most > of the video and it still flashes the bar). > > I'm compelled to leave a little negative feedback at the lack of overlap > between the CSS deprecation and completion of #overlay-scrollbars. I've > read the arguments and while I don't agree with many of them (specifically > no-true-scotsman arguments about how good UX should not use un-impinging > scrollbars), I can understand not wanting to carry a non-spec feature > forevermore but this feature has been in place for a VERY long time and it > works wonderfully for those of us that use it. The fact that > #overlay-scollbars is a WIP should have been plenty of justification for > holding off on the CSS deprecation until that work was fully vetted, > delivered and adopted. -2c > > Thanks for engaging and attempting to help all the same. > > Justin > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 4:44 PM Chris Harrelson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 3:57 PM Justin Mayfield <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the link Chris. >>> >>> Unfortunately that does not work for my use-case as it's very important >>> for my UX that the margins are perfectly balanced in the un-hover state. >>> So as ugly as the layout shift is, it's actually better than always having >>> the scrollbar impinging, visible or otherwise. >>> >>> In that thread I see you also mentioned that work is being done to >>> support cross platform overlay style bars for chromium (Awesome!). Can we >>> just rollback this deprecation until that work is completed so myself and >>> other users of this feature (however fringe) can continue using modern >>> versions of chromium? Otherwise I'll have to stay on an old version of >>> Electron/Chromium until the new overlay support is available. >>> >> >> Unfortunately we won't be able to roll it back. There is however an >> experimental command line flag you might be able to set temporarily: >> --enable-features=OverlayScrollbar. >> >> >>> >>> PS: In the other threads guidance, you recommend trying `visibility: >>> hidden` in conjunction with `scrollbar-gutter: stable`, but the latter is >>> not needed since visibility states don't affect layout. >>> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 4:17:45 PM UTC-6 Chris Harrelson wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Justin, >>>> >>>> You may find the suggestions in my email here >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/sxa8e66wQQQ/m/NitV9vxCAgAJ> >>>> helpful for adjustments for your situation. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 6:24 PM Justin Mayfield <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm being negatively affected by this change. I make an Electron app >>>>> that contains many widget style windows that overlay the screen. My users >>>>> place and size these windows with pixel perfect accuracy and I use custom >>>>> scrollbars that are hidden unless `:hover` is true. In conjunction with >>>>> `overflow: overlay` there was no layout shifting on all platforms before >>>>> 114, but now my windows visibly jank quite badly when hovered because of >>>>> the layout shift. >>>>> >>>>> Any suggestions on how I might achieve the pre 114 `overflow: overlay` >>>>> behavior? >>>>> >>>>> Attached video demo of before [7] and after [8] behavior. >>>>> On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 9:34:36 AM UTC-6 Yoav Weiss wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 5, 2023 at 8:47 PM Chris Harrelson <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 9:21 PM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 2:37 AM Chris Harrelson < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Contact [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-overflow-3/#valdef-overflow-auto >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Removes the overflow:overlay scrolling mode, and makes overlay a >>>>>>>>> legacy alias of auto. overflow:overlay is the same as overflow:auto, >>>>>>>>> except >>>>>>>>> that it does not prevent content from extending into the scrollbar >>>>>>>>> gutter, >>>>>>>>> in cases where non-overlay OS scrollbars are present. (If overlay >>>>>>>>> scrollbars are present, there is no effect.) Example: With >>>>>>>>> overflow:overlay: https://output.jsbin.com/yujenuq/quiet With >>>>>>>>> overflow:auto: https://output.jsbin.com/ruzogaf/quiet >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Which platforms would one see a difference between these two? (I'm >>>>>>>> not seeing a difference on MacOS) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To see a difference you will have to turn on non-overlay scrollbars >>>>>>> in the macOS settings. This feature only has an effect for cases where >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> OS provides non-overlay scrollbars. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tried it out and I now understand that my question RE triggering >>>>>> layout shifts doesn't make sense, as the non-overlay scrollbars are >>>>>> always >>>>>> there. >>>>>> Also, this is a significantly better user experience, so it >>>>>> makes perfect sense to do this! :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also: note that this is an I2P, not an I2S. I have not yet done a >>>>>>> thorough compatibility analysis of existing sites, but plan to do it >>>>>>> soon. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>Scroll >>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EScroll> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TAG review >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Developers currently relying on content overlapping the scrollbar >>>>>>>>> gutter would instead see some additional line wrapping. Users, on the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> hand, would be able to see more content that is currently invisible >>>>>>>>> underneath a scrollbar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm assuming that content would avoid overlapping with the gutter >>>>>>>> before scrolling ever starts, right? (rather than triggering layout >>>>>>>> shifts >>>>>>>> once the user scrolls) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On platform configurations with overlay scrollbars in the OS, this >>>>>>>>> change has no effect; it only applies to situations where a >>>>>>>>> non-overlay >>>>>>>>> scrollbar is configured by the browser. Use counter: >>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2995 >>>>>>>>> Adoption is more than 2% of page loads. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Gecko*: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/768) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *WebKit*: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/157) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sites might not know why their line wrapping changed to exclude >>>>>>>>> the scrollbar gutter. However, this is the existing behavior in >>>>>>>>> Firefox and >>>>>>>>> Safari, so they would get interop by default. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?Yes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Flag nameOverflowOverlayAliasesAuto >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?No >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>> Shipping on desktop 114 >>>>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 114 >>>>>>>>> Shipping on Android 114 >>>>>>>>> DevTrial on Android 114 >>>>>>>>> Shipping on WebView 114 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5194091479957504 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw-F4mOhUMuU3nw423C8CurZKX_wxQvXRPv-XT4Zhsm-XQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw-F4mOhUMuU3nw423C8CurZKX_wxQvXRPv-XT4Zhsm-XQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfWTkzPKzCF9gGdVHzXKVzDsv921OD-u_JTJv-muV3pkoQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfWTkzPKzCF9gGdVHzXKVzDsv921OD-u_JTJv-muV3pkoQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/02dd8a9c-a13a-4cf4-baf2-3eeab761b394n%40chromium.org >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/02dd8a9c-a13a-4cf4-baf2-3eeab761b394n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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