I'm glad you brought this up, it's something we'd like to get your take on. Windows designed it that way in their official spec, but I personally feel like it creates an accessibility issue. I believe Apple hides the panning indicator on macOS, so I suspect their design inspiration came from there.
On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 2:31:07 PM UTC-7 sko...@chromium.org wrote: > Thanks for sharing these docs. > > I am curious about the rationale for "Hidden Mode" as described in the visual > spec > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. > > Why is this mode desired only for non-root scrollers? > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:33 PM Rahul Arakeri <ara...@microsoft.com> > wrote: > >> Just checking in to see if anyone got a chance to review the doc. >> >> Please let us know if you have any questions/concerns (or if it looks >> good as-is). š >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 5:48 PM >> *To:* Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> >> *Cc:* Steve Kobes <sko...@chromium.org>; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org>; blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers <p...@chromium.org>; input-dev < >> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy <yshal...@microsoft.com>; >> Olga Gerchikov <gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani < >> sahir....@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com> >> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> Hereās the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what you >> think. š >> >> FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs >> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM >> *To:* 'Chris Harrelson' <chri...@chromium.org> >> *Cc:* Steve Kobes <sko...@chromium.org>; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org>; blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers <p...@chromium.org>; input-dev < >> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy <yshal...@microsoft.com>; >> Olga Gerchikov <gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani < >> sahir....@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com> >> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Sounds good Chris, weāll send out a class design doc shortly to get >> everyone on the same page. >> >> >> >> Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, weāll come up with a plan to keep >> non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. >> >> >> >> *From:* Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM >> *To:* Rahul Arakeri <ara...@microsoft.com> >> *Cc:* Steve Kobes <sko...@chromium.org>; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org>; blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers <p...@chromium.org>; input-dev < >> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy <yshal...@microsoft.com>; >> Olga Gerchikov <gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani < >> sahir....@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >> Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from >> us to move this discussion along. >> >> >> >> Hi Rahul, >> >> >> >> Since this is an intent to implement you don't need any official approval >> from an API owner. Feel free to start landing code. Let me know if you run >> into any issues, happy to help unblock progress. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM >> *To:* 'Steve Kobes' <sko...@chromium.org> >> *Cc:* Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org>; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org>; >> blin...@chromium.org; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; p...@chromium.org; inpu...@chromium.org; >> Yaroslav Shalivskyy <yshal...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov < >> gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani <sahir....@microsoft.com>; Ben >> Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com> >> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default >> scrollbar mode (and we donāt yet know the scope of work needed since we >> never tested this feature on Linux). >> >> For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as >> outlined in the visual spec >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0> >> . >> >> >> >> Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0> >> >> of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel >> free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoftedgeinsider.com%2Fen-us%2Fdownload%2Fcanary&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2BvICikSWgyvetSfBzwR6EAAqdSmxU6EXosFJSqdzCM%3D&reserved=0>. >> >> (Experimental flag *edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollbars-win-style*). >> >> >> >> *From:* Steve Kobes <sko...@chromium.org> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 11:38 AM >> *To:* Rahul Arakeri <ara...@microsoft.com> >> *Cc:* Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org>; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org>; >> blin...@chromium.org; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; p...@chromium.org; inpu...@chromium.org; >> Yaroslav Shalivskyy <yshal...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov < >> gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani <sahir....@microsoft.com>; Ben >> Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the >> risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode may >> creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some degree >> both to bugs in websites, and bugs in Chrome.) >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:23 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via input-dev < >> inpu...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Ian :) >> >> >> >> Re Chris: >> >> There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between dark/light >> modes, "Always show scrollbarsā, etc) but most of the code should just >> work. Note that we've never really tested this feature on Linux so we do >> not have an exhaustive list of stuff that will not work on Linux. >> >> >> >> *From:* Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM >> *To:* Ian Kilpatrick <ikilp...@chromium.org> >> *Cc:* Rahul Arakeri <ara...@microsoft.com>; Mike Taylor < >> mike...@chromium.org>; blin...@chromium.org; Robert Flack < >> fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu <wangx...@chromium.org>; >> p...@chromium.org; inpu...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < >> yshal...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov <gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir >> Vellani <sahir....@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com >> > >> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that we >> have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick <ikilp...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >> Exciting! >> >> >> >> Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or >> scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. >> they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as >> most websites handle this already. >> >> >> >> An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more >> sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are >> always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except >> linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those >> users who opt-out. >> >> (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting >> side effect). >> >> >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Mike, >> >> >> >> Sure, Iāve created a chromestatus entry here: >> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824 >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2Ffeature%2F5693137379917824&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=vfppOwtYwtmQrwqiprbugzqPulbVNcuag1WFpo5m60Q%3D&reserved=0> >> >> And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on the pageās >> layout. In itās default state, the scrollbars will be in āminimal modeā >> (aka overlay scrollbars). These will *not* take up any layout space >> (whereas, today in Chromium, the default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK). >> >> The users will however still have an option to āAlways show scrollbarsā >> via an OS setting. These *will* take up layout space (similar to what >> Chromium scrollbars do today). >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM >> *To:* Rahul Arakeri <ara...@microsoft.com> >> *Cc:* blin...@chromium.org; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org>; >> wangxianzhu <wangx...@chromium.org>; p...@chromium.org; >> inpu...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy <yshal...@microsoft.com>; Olga >> Gerchikov <gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani <sahir....@microsoft.com>; >> Ben Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com> >> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Hi Rahul, >> >> >> >> Would you mind creating a chromestatus entry for this intent? (See "Step >> 0" at http://dev.chromium.org/blink/launching-features >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.chromium.org%2Fblink%2Flaunching-features&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=oeqZVkHsRXN%2FzGeO9BceS4FNDQ9LjZfrnQZTB8Xc4Uc%3D&reserved=0> >> >> for a link). >> >> >> >> Also, out of curiosity (because I don't know much about scrollbars) - >> will this proposed change have an impact on a page's layout? >> >> >> >> thanks, >> Mike >> >> >> >> On 1/28/22 2:50 PM, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote: >> >> *Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.* >> >> āÆ >> >> *Contact emails* >> >> Rahul Arakeri: ara...@microsoft.com >> >> Yaroslav Shalivskyy: yshal...@microsoft.com >> >> Sahir Vellani: sahir....@microsoft.com >> >> Olga Gerchikov: gerc...@microsoft.com >> >> Ben Mathwig: benjamin...@microsoft.com >> >> >> >> *Visual Spec* >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit >> >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> >> >> *Summary* >> >> This proposal is to modernize the Chromium scrollbars (both overlay and >> non-overlay) to fit the Windows 11 Fluent design language. As a part of >> this effort, we are proposing to update the visual appearance along with >> some changes to how users interact with overlay scrollbars. >> >> >> >> *Motivation* >> >> As the rest of Windows has been embracing WinUI and native Fluent >> controls, certain non-XAML apps like Chromium-based browsers still use the >> traditional (Win32 looking) scrollbars. As such, we believe that the visual >> appearance of scrollbars could use an update in the interest of maintaining >> homogeneity with the rest of Windows. >> >> In a nutshell, weāre proposing that the default scrollbars should act >> more like overlay scrollbars, be thinner, have insets and rounded edges. >> Users will still have an option to select non overlay scrollbars via the >> "Always show scrollbars" OS setting. Non overlay scrollbars will also be >> restyled to match Windows theme. For details on scrollbar styling and state >> transitions, please see the visual spec linked above. >> >> Also, please note that since some HTML controls (like <textarea> and >> <select>) depend on the ScrollbarThemes(s) that are being refreshed, they >> too will also get the new scrollbars. >> >> >> >> *Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, >> Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?* >> >> No, this is aimed at Windows for now. However, it can be made available >> on Linux too. >> >> >> >> *Ongoing technical constraints* >> >> None. >> >> >> >> *Tracking bug* >> >> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1292117 >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbugs.chromium.org%2Fp%2Fchromium%2Fissues%2Fdetail%3Fid%3D1292117&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122796656%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=JVa%2FN%2FrTCNHWNnA4ZScgXpcm6a%2Fv7cDhum%2BLmcTygo0%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> 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