+1 to Yoav's perspective here. Our job is not to force interoperability but to create the conditions to make future interoperability as easy as possible. We have multiple examples of APIs where originally Chrome was the only interested browser, but once sites started to adopt them and demonstrate the value, other browsers decided they wanted to provide their users with that value too. I would hate to create a condition where, for example, Brave, Edge or Samsung browser felt compelled to support an API with 'Chrome' in it's name once there was clear user value to supporting the use case. Further, if we put Chrome in the name that could be perceived as indicating that we were actively trying to create such browser lock-in or otherwise create conditions for Chrome to have an unfair advantage over other browsers when nothing could be further from the truth.
Rouslan, it looks to me like the API is designed to support multiple stores, right? For example if Samsung decided that they wanted to support connecting it up to both the Android Play Billing API (so SBrowser could provide equivalent user experience to Chrome) AND to the Samsung store (so merchants could have a choice in stores, perhaps competing on terms like commission rate) they could do that with the current API shape, right? We've fought hard to get away from the webkit-prefixed and "chrome apps" world and we know it's not possible to know up front that an API will never have interoperable implementations. I think the downside of potentially using up a small piece of the global API namespace for an API that fails to achieve interoperability is much smaller than the downside of disincentivizing other implementations or burning a Chrome/Play API name into the web for what may become more general. At the same time, the TAG has been clear that their time is best spent on the APIs that are most likely to become interoperable standards. Dan told me at one point that it might be best if we didn't even both asking for TAG review that didn't have engagement from a 2nd browser., so I don't think we should expect them to have any real interest in reviewing this API. They've already marked this review as closed, so I don't think we should expect a response. Rego, what do you think? I'll give my LGTM3 but also happy to keep discussing the tradeoffs here. I really appreciate having the non-google API owners perspective here, it's always possible that us Googlers have some unconscious bias influencing our thinking. Rick On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 6:52 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: > > > On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 9:25:54 AM UTC+1 Manuel Rego wrote: > >> TAG suggested back in July that this API something specific to Chrome or >> Google Play Store. It looks like this hasn't been done, any good reason >> to not doing that? > > > From my perspective, I believe that piece of feedback runs contrary to Blink's > interoperability principles > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1romO1kHzpcwTwPsCzrkNWlh0bBXBwHfUsCt98-CNzkY/edit#heading=h.t71a2ioil8j0>, > and is contrary to what we (well, I) told the API's developers when they came > to this list with a proprietary proposal > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/vkS3k30lWNs/m/Gt4sKECQEgAJ> > . > The proposal got a lot of interest > <https://discourse.wicg.io/t/proposal-web-payments-digital-product-management-api/4350> > on > WICG, and even if the only store that implements it is the Google Play > Store, I think there's value in having an interoperable API that would > enable other Chromiums to ship, as well as enable implementations in > non-Chromium Android browsers. I'd also be hesitant to exclude the possibility > of other stores > <https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/571#issuecomment-861188412> > implementing this API as well in the future. > > > >> >> Also there's been an update on the TAG about the plan of shipping this >> API without changing the name. But that was just 1 week ago, should we >> give them some time to reply before shipping? >> >> Cheers, >> Rego >> >> On 01/02/2022 20:41, Yoav Weiss wrote: >> > LGTM2 >> > >> > On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 8:00 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org >> > <mailto:chris...@chromium.org>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > LGTM1 >> > >> > On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 6:16 AM Rouslan Solomakhin >> > <rous...@chromium.org <mailto:rous...@chromium.org>> wrote: >> > >> > Contact emails >> > >> > mgi...@chromium.org <mailto:mgi...@chromium.org>, >> > rous...@chromium.org <mailto:rous...@chromium.org>, >> > glen...@chromium.org <mailto:glen...@chromium.org> >> > >> > >> > Explainer >> > >> > https://github.com/WICG/digital-goods/blob/main/explainer.md >> > <https://github.com/WICG/digital-goods/blob/main/explainer.md> >> > >> > >> > Spec >> > >> > https://wicg.github.io/digital-goods/ >> > <https://wicg.github.io/digital-goods/>- Currently being >> > reviewed by a spec mentor, so some details may change >> > (hopefully, only formatting). >> > >> > >> > Summary >> > >> > An API for querying and managing digital products to facilitate >> > in-app purchases from web applications, in conjunction with the >> > Payment Request API (which is used to make the actual >> > purchases). The API would be linked to a digital distribution >> > service connected to via the user agent. In Chrome, this is >> > specifically a web API wrapper around the Android Play Billing API. >> > >> > >> > Origin trial analysis >> > >> > DGAPI v2.0 is currently in an origin trial with M99 being the >> > last milestone. So far, 40 people have responded to the origin >> > trial survey. Notable data points: >> > >> > >> > How easy was it to use the feature:4.1 out of 6. >> > >> > (0 - extremely difficult … 6 - extremely easy.) >> > >> > >> > How likely are you to keep using this feature:5.5 out of 6. >> > >> > (0 - extremely unlikely … 6 - extremely likely.) >> > >> > >> > The most common comments were about improving feature >> > documentation and debuggability. That is being tracked in >> > https://github.com/WICG/digital-goods/issues/33 >> > <https://github.com/WICG/digital-goods/issues/33>. >> > >> > >> > Blink component >> > >> > Blink>Payments >> > < >> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EPayments> >> >> > >> > >> > Search tags >> > >> > payments <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:payments>, >> > billing <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:billing> >> > >> > >> > TAG review >> > >> > https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/571 >> > <https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/571>TAG >> > recommends making a Chrome-specific API. Other issues addressed. >> > >> > >> > TAG review status >> > >> > Issues addressed >> > >> > >> > Risks >> > >> > Interoperability and Compatibility >> > >> > Similar to Payment Request: this API is used to talk to specific >> > store backends, and so its usage is tailored to the specific >> > store. The reason it's a proposed web standard is so that the >> > same code (which is specific to one store) is portable across >> > browsers. >> > >> > >> > Gecko: No signal >> > (https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/349 >> > <https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/349>) >> > Requested 2020-05-27. >> > >> > >> > WebKit: No signal >> > (https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2021-October/032001.html >> > <https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2021-October/032001.html>) >> >> > Requested 2021-10-08. >> > >> > >> > Web developers: Positive >> > ( >> https://discourse.wicg.io/t/proposal-web-payments-digital-product-management-api/4350 >> > < >> https://discourse.wicg.io/t/proposal-web-payments-digital-product-management-api/4350>). >> >> > >> > >> > Other signals: rouslan@ presented DGAPI at 2021 TPAC >> > <https://www.w3.org/2021/Talks/rouslan-dgapi-20211028.pdf>(meeting >> > notes <https://www.w3.org/2021/10/28-wpwg-minutes.html#t04>) and >> > at a recent PWA Dev Sync >> > <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a_6_QVEQrEeUduc8nPE-uc7PKCr-Yhx7/view>(meeting >> >> > notes >> > < >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X2j1wKC2T4RONcUGYxGus8Dytv6s2_tVTUSkWDWPza4/edit#heading=h.chc35okxwb9>). >> >> > Other browser implementers and app stores do not appear to have >> > immediate plans to engage with DGAPI. There were some questions, >> > no objections. >> > >> > >> > Ergonomics >> > >> > Digital Goods API is used in tandem with the Payment Request API. >> > >> > >> > In order for another browser to implement Digital Goods API for >> > Play Billing in the same way as Chrome, they would need to >> > implement something like the Trusted Web Activity >> > <https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/trusted-web-activity/>(TWA) >> > feature and then invoke the TWA shell methods for communicating >> > with Play Billing. The android-browser-helper >> > <https://github.com/GoogleChrome/android-browser-helper>is a TWA >> > template code that we have been recommending app developers to >> > use for the Play Billing integration. >> > >> > >> > >> > Debuggability >> > >> > We have had several requests from developers to make the API >> > easier to debug, but it is difficult due to the interaction with >> > a backing service based in an app/store context. We are looking >> > for suggestions (https://github.com/WICG/digital-goods/issues/33 >> > <https://github.com/WICG/digital-goods/issues/33>) on how we >> > might improve the debuggability of the API. >> > >> > >> > Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >> > < >> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>? >> >> > >> > The tests are in >> > //third_party/blink/web_tests/wpt_internal/digital-goods. >> > >> > >> > I think these could move to WPT proper with .tentative file names? >> > >> > >> > >> > Flag name >> > >> > DigitalGoods >> > >> > >> > Requires code in //chrome? >> > >> > False >> > >> > >> > Tracking bug >> > >> > https://crbug.com/1248319 <https://crbug.com/1248319> >> > >> > >> > Launch bug >> > >> > https://crbug.com/1250123 <https://crbug.com/1250123> - There >> > are no code changes from the current origin trial to what we >> > intend to ship to stable. Therefore, there is no new tracking >> > bug or launch bug being filed. >> > >> > >> > Estimated milestones >> > >> > Origin trial end: 99 >> > >> > Ship to stable begin: 100 >> > >> > >> > Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >> > >> > https://chromestatus.com/feature/5339955595313152 >> > <https://chromestatus.com/feature/5339955595313152> >> > >> > >> > Links to previous Intent discussions >> > >> > Intent to prototype 1.0: >> > >> > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/vkS3k30lWNs >> > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/vkS3k30lWNs>. >> > >> > Intent to experiment 1.0: >> > >> > >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/syI9_M9dANY/m/3lt-QGMHAgAJ >> > < >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/syI9_M9dANY/m/3lt-QGMHAgAJ>. >> >> > >> > Intent to continue experimenting 1.0: >> > >> > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/uoTx_cRuL5o >> > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/uoTx_cRuL5o>. >> > >> > Intent to experiment 2.0: >> > >> > >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/wIYqo3F_Vmo/m/uKw6hDa8BgAJ >> > < >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/wIYqo3F_Vmo/m/uKw6hDa8BgAJ>. >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> > Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >> > it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org >> > <mailto:blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org>. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAMMzaWEND_DnBLvCqrtiRoXzxgUrRzC0i%2Bs55Jxa439yui0xFw%40mail.gmail.com >> > < >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAMMzaWEND_DnBLvCqrtiRoXzxgUrRzC0i%2Bs55Jxa439yui0xFw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "blink-dev" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> > send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org >> > <mailto:blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org>. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw835Xd4N%2BhdqG6e-U0U8O39rHPrmDKncRQNn9bGeET8nQ%40mail.gmail.com >> > < >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw835Xd4N%2BhdqG6e-U0U8O39rHPrmDKncRQNn9bGeET8nQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "blink-dev" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org >> > <mailto:blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org>. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfVwSgxMeq%3DvPmstfiOEcciNSCw9wDkyTiadrvc7z9qnVw%40mail.gmail.com >> > < >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfVwSgxMeq%3DvPmstfiOEcciNSCw9wDkyTiadrvc7z9qnVw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/58d2ff10-efe9-470c-9ed6-9ec555a44194n%40chromium.org > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/58d2ff10-efe9-470c-9ed6-9ec555a44194n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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