Thanks for the update! Repeating my question from above, that probably got lost along the way: Was the concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other `video-*` MQs that are already shipped?
On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 9:33 PM Will Cassella <[email protected]> wrote: > There's been movement on the Github issue > <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793#issuecomment-973647057> > regarding > the spec, and the consensus is that the way Safari has done things (having > dynamic-range: > standard always return true, and dynamic-range: high be evaluated against > the capabilities of the display) is what we should be doing, and the > wording of the spec should be adjusted as well. I've updated our > implementation to reflect that. > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 12:04 PM Chris Harrelson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Ok thanks. It looks like the CSSWG discussed the issue and there still >> needs to be more discussion before a resolution is achieved, so we'll wait >> for that. >> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:45 PM Will Cassella <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hey Chris, >>> >>> I’ve filed an issue on the csswg-drafts repo >>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793> asking for the >>> wording to be adjusted in the spec. In the original discussion surrounding >>> this media query, the intent was for this to be reflective of the display >>> device and not an overall representation of the user agent's capabilities. >>> I did some research into Safari's implementation >>> <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/blob/e1adc392ff841dee89aab69af21e3c429e4d5c88/Source/WebCore/css/MediaQueryEvaluator.cpp#L453> >>> of this query, and while they similarly implement dynamic-range: high >>> with respect to the display device, their treatment of dynamic-range: >>> standard isn't in line with the spec (it always returns true, even on >>> HDR displays). After some discussion with +chcunningham, we think this may >>> be the correct path forward for Chrome as well as sites are already using >>> this query on Safari, and it makes sense from a backwards compatibility >>> standpoint (how should dynamic-range: high react if an ultra-high enum >>> is ever added?). I'm still waiting to get feedback on the Github issue I >>> filed at the moment. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Will >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 12:30 PM Chris Harrelson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, there were some discussions of the spec, and other questions, so >>>> far in the thread. Will, could you summarize the current status? Thanks. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:04 PM David Baron <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando Serboncini >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> [coming from the other thread... :) ] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning dynamic-range: >>>>>>> high right now would be useful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The spec could use some clarification: >>>>>>> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different >>>>>>> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ... >>>>>>> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both >>>>>>> with/without alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences there, >>>>>>> but I may be wrong here). >>>>>>> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness >>>>>>> should match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not an >>>>>>> expert, >>>>>>> but I know those exist. >>>>>>> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but I'd >>>>>>> ask for a rationale here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single media >>>>>>> query, but the risk here would be to release a semantic that guarantees >>>>>>> very little, and therefore is not useful in the long run. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an implementation >>>>>>>> should report (dynamic-range: standard) and (video-dynamic-range: >>>>>>>> high). It would be great to see the spec clarified to make it >>>>>>>> clearer what UA support is expected for each, though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the >>>>>>>>> discussion here): >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The spec <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> >>>>>>>>> requires >>>>>>>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device >>>>>>>>>> fulfill all >>>>>>>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be high >>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range. Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut colors in >>>>>>>>>> CSS, >>>>>>>>>> HTML, or Canvas >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based on >>>>>> this thread >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>) >>>>>> that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas. >>>>>> Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level 4 >>>>>> support? Or something else? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for canvas >>>>> (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively about it) but I >>>>> don't think we do in HTML or CSS. (I also should have included images in >>>>> my list, though I think if we have support with canvas then we probably do >>>>> for images as well.).) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut (but >>>>>> rather about color depth >>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), although it may be >>>>>> possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate 1:1. Can you >>>>>> clarify if that's what you meant? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's requirements >>>>> rather than just using the term "wide-gamut". You're correct that it's >>>>> not >>>>> 1:1, though I think that in practice an implementation is unlikely to meet >>>>> the spec's requirements on color depth and contrast ratio without >>>>> supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut. >>>>> >>>>> (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in the >>>>> spec, perhaps not for canvas or images as well.) >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range: >>>>>>>>>> high) is true based only on the device, which is what it looks >>>>>>>>>> to me like the current code >>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0> >>>>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as to >>>>>>>>>> what it >>>>>>>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the >>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my >>>>>>>>>> understanding of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome >>>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>>> shouldn't say that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it >>>>>>>>>> supports wide-gamut colors in at least some and maybe all of those >>>>>>>>>> contexts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification, since >>>>>>>>> we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on the web the >>>>>>>>> intent >>>>>>>>> isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We do already >>>>>>>>> support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> element, so having >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> queries exist to let developers detect display capabilities is already >>>>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited in the >>>>>>>>>>> devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. I've created >>>>>>>>>>> pull >>>>>>>>>>> requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools frontend to >>>>>>>>>>> enable >>>>>>>>>>> this. https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613 >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias >>>>>>>>>>> Bynens wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact [email protected], [email protected], >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect the >>>>>>>>>>>>> current display device’s support for HDR. This feature adds two >>>>>>>>>>>>> new CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>> media queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', both of >>>>>>>>>>>>> which may >>>>>>>>>>>>> be one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these queries >>>>>>>>>>>>> according >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the capabilities of the display device the browser window is >>>>>>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules accordingly or >>>>>>>>>>>>> respond in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web developers >>>>>>>>>>>>> need ways to enable HDR content on their web pages without >>>>>>>>>>>>> compromising the >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience for users of non-HDR displays, or mixed-HDR >>>>>>>>>>>>> multi-display >>>>>>>>>>>>> setups. CSS already provides the 'media query' concept for >>>>>>>>>>>>> toggling rules >>>>>>>>>>>>> based on display device characteristics, and this feature extends >>>>>>>>>>>>> that set >>>>>>>>>>>>> of queries to enable detecting HDR support on the current display >>>>>>>>>>>>> device. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Initial public proposal >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot Filed. This is an incremental change to CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>> Media Queries, already adopted by CSS WG. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range` MQ, as >>>>>>>>>> it's shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG. >>>>>>>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was the >>>>>>>>>> concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other >>>>>>>>>> `video-*` >>>>>>>>>> MQs that are already shipped? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping ( >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet supported >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and elaborate >>>>>>>>>>>> on this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to ensure DevTools >>>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>>> basic editing of this new media query. It looks like this works >>>>>>>>>>>> out of the >>>>>>>>>>>> box in Canary. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag nameCSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1224711 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones97 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4jQTkmPvDLBM_t_0S%3D6k70UVdcszQ01hQELmE%3Dfp81JPA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4jQTkmPvDLBM_t_0S%3D6k70UVdcszQ01hQELmE%3Dfp81JPA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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