Ton, It's been nearly a year and we're seemingly still hurting people [1] you're a clever one! you only said it deserved priority, not that it would actually get priority, i fell for that one!
I don't see this realistically happening for 3.6, but please I beg you, make it a prio for 4.0 this really has got to stop. Greetings, Ray [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/blender/comments/12f8nh9/omg_spent_hours_texture_painting_and_its_gone_any/ On 2022-05-13 7:09 a.m., Ton Roosendaal via Bf-committers wrote: > Hi Ray, > >> deleting the users data without their consent >> isn't OK, has never been OK, will never be OK, > > Fully agree with that. > > The list of critical issues is way too long. But this deserves top priority > for fixing. > > -Ton- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org > Chairman Blender Foundation, CEO Blender Institute / Studio > Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands > > > On 12/05/2022 22:17, Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers wrote: >> I don't think there's any disagreement between me and bastien >> we both agree it's a problem that just isn't getting the >> attention it deserves. The disagreement is with the people who >> set the priorities. >> >> Most of the priories are seemingly set by the needs of the >> blender studio, they have learned a long long time ago, how >> to "not lose data" to the point it has seemingly become a >> out of sight out of heart style problem. >> >> My somewhat cheeky prod on the mailing list was meant as >> a reminder, deleting the users data without their consent >> isn't OK, has never been OK, will never be OK, and we should >> be fixing it rather than waving it away going "it's fiiine, >> work on this instead" it's very much not "fine" >> >> --Ray >> >> >> >> On 2022-05-10 2:12 p.m., Zack Brown via Bf-committers wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm also curious about this issue. It seems like Ray is giving one side of >>> the argument, but I'm not clear on the other side. This can't simply be a >>> debate between one group that is in favor of destroying user data, and >>> another group that opposes it. >>> >>> Looking at the developer task, it seems like one concern is that any >>> solution to the problem would need to take account of workflow issues, so >>> that production workflows won't be slowed down. I'd like to hear an example >>> of a production workflow that relies on blender's current behavior, and how >>> it might be slowed down if the data were simply not deleted instead. >>> >>> There definitely seems to be something to what Ray says, about saving users >>> from a data-loss baptism of fire. And there also seems to be something to >>> what Bastien says, about various big projects that currently have a higher >>> priority than fixing a standard blender behavior that has always been this >>> way. I know there are a lot of features I eagerly look forward to, more >>> than fixes for some of the known misfeatures. But I also know that I got >>> bit by the inexplicable data-loss issue myself at first, and it was a pain >>> in the butt. >>> >>> Could someone take a stab at explaining what this debate really is about, >>> in such a way that both sides would feel fairly represented? All I know >>> right now is that there's a disagreement about something that currently >>> feels over my head. >>> >>> Be well, >>> Zack >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 9:05 PM Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers < >>> bf-committers@blender.org> wrote: >>> >>>> That task is over 3 years old though, it mostly reconfirms >>>> the notion that the people who set the priorities just >>>> don't see silently destroying end user data being a problem. >>>> >>>> I hope this short thread serves as a wake-up call and this >>>> and the other core improvements you mentioned will be made >>>> more of a priority and time will actually be allocated for >>>> it in the next release cycle. >>>> >>>> But I'm not getting my hopes up here. >>>> >>>> --Ray >>>> On 2022-05-10 12:54 a.m., Bastien Montagne via Bf-committers wrote: >>>>> Hi Ray, >>>>> >>>>> We already have a task to address this issue: >>>>> >>>>> https://developer.blender.org/T61209 >>>>> >>>>> But this needs time to be properly handled, and these days we spend >>>> everything besides regular maintenance on 'big projects', so... this one >>>> and several other relatively small core improvements and fixes keep being >>>> delayed from one release to the other. >>>>> -- Bastien >>>>> >>>>> On 5/9/22 21:12, Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers wrote: >>>>>> All, >>>>>> >>>>>> It's been years [1] (2018) since I last was rather >>>>>> vocal on this subject, but how is this [2] still >>>>>> happening? "Yes, blender deleted your data (and silently >>>>>> at that), that means it's working correctly!" cannot >>>>>> possibly be the best we can do, is it? >>>>>> >>>>>> While I'm excited with all the directions blender >>>>>> development is currently going, it's utterly depressing that >>>>>> users are still losing data on a daily basis because >>>>>> we can't quite get the basics right like "do not delete the >>>>>> users data without their consent". >>>>>> >>>>>> These are *NOT* isolated incidents [3]. Losing your >>>>>> data and learning about "the fake user" shouldn't be >>>>>> a right of passage to become "a real blender user". >>>>>> Users shouldn't be silently *losing* data in an operation >>>>>> ironically called *saving*. That's crazy, no other >>>>>> application behaves like this! >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I know this is how we have always done it. No, >>>>>> this is not OK, never was. >>>>>> Ton: Please make protecting the user’s data a >>>>>> priority, as it doesn’t seem this will happen otherwise. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [1]https://devtalk.blender.org/t/oh-no/505/2 >>>>>> [2]https://developer.blender.org/T97968 >>>>>> [3]https://devtalk.blender.org/t/more/22715 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Bf-committers mailing list >>>>>> Bf-committers@blender.org >>>>>> List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: >>>>>> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Bf-committers mailing list >>>>> Bf-committers@blender.org >>>>> List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: >>>>> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bf-committers mailing list >>>> Bf-committers@blender.org >>>> List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: >> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > _______________________________________________ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org List details, subscription details or unsubscribe: https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
