Thank you to everyone who chimed in in support of a more professional
developer environment. When we all communicate and resolve concerns
together it helps to make Blender more inclusive.
Thank you Dalai, and also Bastien, for your commitment to make Blender
better.
Ryan
On 2021-09-25 06:00 AM, bf-committers-requ...@blender.org wrote:
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 09:41:07 +0200
From: bjornmose <bjornm...@gmx.net>
To: Monique Dewanchand via Bf-committers <bf-committers@blender.org>
Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] *** RESPECTFULLY NOT SPAM *** Weekly
Development Notes Followup
Hey Monique,
thank you for sharing your observations!
bjormose
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:36:19 +0200
From: Dalai Felinto <da...@blender.org>
To: bf-blender developers <bf-committers@blender.org>
Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] *** RESPECTFULLY NOT SPAM *** Weekly
Development Notes Followup
Hi,
This kind of communication indeed doesn't belong in the report and the
image we want to project.
Everyone contributing to Blender is to uphold a professional behavior. And
we should work to make sure slips like this don't happen again.
Thank you,
-Dalai-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dalai Felinto - da...@blender.org - www.blender.org
Blender Development Coordinator
Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Op vr 24 sep. 2021 om 14:48 schreef Monique Dewanchand via Bf-committers <
bf-committers@blender.org>:
I think Ryan's remarks raises some valid points.
Putting words like "sigh" in your reports, to me, is not very professional.
As developers we all have had our moments of frustration and sometimes
unwillingly express those.
I hope we can forgive Bastien for this.
However I would expect from a Development Coordinator to notice these types
of things and act upon them. But perhaps my expectations are incorrect.
Is someone responsible for the quality of 'official' development
communications (like release notes etc )?
In my experience, years and years ago, when there were only 2 devs
receiving some minimalistic contributions from Blender, I loved
contributing to Blender.
I found the overall vibe and attitude very pleasant, there was respect,
room for good discussions and constructive criticism. This vibe rapidly
changed when Blender started to hire more and more devs. (More)Processes,
rules and regulations made their way into Blender development, all for good
reasons, but at the expense of respect, good discussions and constructive
criticism.
Contributing to Blender Development had become frustrating for me, so I
stopt and decided to contribute in a different way (teaching Blender and
working on add-ons).
In recent years I've noticed quite an improvement in the way blender
developers are communicating with "contributors". Is it perfect? Not yet.
Is there room for improvement? Yes, but it's definitely better than what it
used to be. I do think that contributors are still very valuable for
Blender development so I hope that blender devs, coordinators and
contributors take a bit more care in how they cooperate and communicate.
kind regards,
Monique
On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:42 PM Thomas Dinges via Bf-committers <
bf-committers@blender.org> wrote:
Hi Ryan,
I am not Dalai, but as Developer Community Coordinator I will try to
answer.
1) As Ankit already mentioned, the message was likely marked as spam by
some e-mail filter. Nothing more :)
2) Bastien replied to your mail and explained the situation and the
reason for his note in the report. He also apologized and confirmed that
it was not meant as a personal attack.
The Blender developers do their best to communicate professionally and
friendly. In my (round about) 7 years as contributor, in my free time, I
always felt welcome.
There were of course times, when I disagreed with the decisions made by
module owners or the admins. At times this was a little bit frustrating.
But the communication was always professional and friendly.
We can of course argue about remarks such as the "(sigh...") in a
report, but Bastien explained the situation and I don't see a personal
attack in there, only a little bit of frustration and a remark that is
human.
Best regards,
Thomas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:53:48 +0530
From: Ankit <ankitjm...@gmail.com>
To: Ryan Inch via Bf-committers <bf-committers@blender.org>
Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] *** RESPECTFULLY NOT SPAM *** Weekly
Development Notes Followup
Hi
> And now, in what case is it acceptable to mark an email asking about such an
issue as spam?
That is very likely a false positive by some email filter, and not
anything Bastien did.
Ankit
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 08:16:48 +0200
From: Zack Brown<zacha...@gmail.com>
To: bf-blender developers<bf-committers@blender.org>
Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] *** RESPECTFULLY NOT SPAM *** Weekly
Development Notes Followup
I'm curious about this too.
Anyone from the community who wants to contribute to blender is like a lump
of solid gold to the project. If contributors are treated like they're just
a drain on the 'real' developers, then blender will be stuck having to hire
people for everything. Wouldn't it be better to have 100,000 contributors
than just a dozen or so? I'd rather have*no* hired developers, and let the
community do everything, rather than have a tiny number of developers who
make it hard for newcomers to join.
Be well,
Zack
------------------------------
Am 24.09.2021 um 07:59 schrieb Ryan Inch via Bf-committers:
Thanks for your quick reply Bastian. My email wasn't a prompt to be
defensive but a request for clarification from Dalai as the Blender
Development Coordinator. Depending on what Dalai says, I'll follow up
with your points if need be because this is not about me but how
community developers are treated.
Dalai, as Blender Development Coordinator, one specific request from
the Epic MegaGrant was to make Blender more professional. I and other
community devs and members do not think this kind of notation is
professional. It also disincentivizes engagement between core devs
and community devs who do consider this a type of attack.
So again, my question to you as the Blender Development Coordinator is
'In what case is it acceptable for a developer to put something like
"Spent time on re-explaining/re-investigating T9599 (sigh…)." in their
official weekly development notes?' And now, in what case is it
acceptable to mark an email asking about such an issue as spam? I was
under the impression that personal attacks were not tolerated?
Ryan
On 2021-09-21 06:00 AM, bf-committers-requ...@blender.org wrote:
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:20:11 +0200
From: Bastien Montagne <montagn...@wanadoo.fr>
To: Ryan Inch via Bf-committers <bf-committers@blender.org>
Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] *** SPAM *** Weekly Development Notes
Followup
Hi Ryan,
Not sure how you see that as a personal attack? Fact is, I think
spending half a day on something does earns it a note in the weekly
report.
And yes, I was frustrated spending time having to demo the issue after
explaining it's cause/source, finding again the exact use case
triggering it, rebuilding both branch and master to ensure it was
proper
example, etc. We all have (tight) schedules and I was frustrated this
was considered high priority enough to take it over more pressing
matters for Blender 3.0 upcoming BCon2.
I know that expressing personal frustration may not be a good idea,
but that does not in any case make it a personal attack, sorry if you
felt it like that.
Cheers,
Bastien.
On 9/21/21 8:49 AM, Ryan Inch via Bf-committers wrote:
Hello Dalai,
I missed reading Bastien's weekly notes last week or I would have
brought this issue up then. In Bastien's notes for Week 425 - 09/04
to 09/10, one of his notes is this: "Spent time on
re-explaining/re-investigating T9599 (sigh…)."
In what case is it acceptable for a developer to put something like
this in their official weekly development notes? I was under the
impression that personal attacks were not tolerated? (And for the
record it's D9599 not T)
Ryan
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