I don't want to be a part of this thread, nor language wars in general...however I had to respond to this because it is interesting:
>Most degrees in CS/CIS require that you write a simple >compiler. If you >don't learn pointers and memory management, how are >you going to write a >compiler, in Perl? As a matter of fact, I did a compiler for a graduate compiler design class in Perl. It was actually much cleaner and more extensible than the other compilers written in C/C++ and Java. I think Perl is an excellent language to write a compiler in. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Waning : Opinion! [was RE: Complete Beginner Looking for Advise!] > Maybe I should unsubscribe and disable this account before I hit send, but I > have to defend what I wrote. I certainly never expected to be cursed at for > posting an opinion response with justification to a beginners list! > > I never suggested C++ (I agree, it's not a good OO paradigm - probably one > of the reasons why it's so underused) - I would have suggested smalltalk but > thought something used on a more massive scale would be more useful. Perl > is cryptic because many Perl programmers tend to like to be cryptic - with > today's optomizing compilers/interpreters it doesn't matter if you can write > something in one line, it matters that someone else can read it. I think > code that is not clear represents bad programming practice. Search the web > for obfuscated and you will find Perl. > > As far as scripting vs. programming language, I mean that some things can't > be done in Perl - if I understand correctly, many perl calls are just stubs > to routines written in C or even assembler. Is that really a programming > language, if I can't control every aspect of the system? Even in C some > things have to be done with assembler code. > > Regular expressions (some of the special symbols I mentioned, but also all > the others) are a relatively complex concept for a beginner, but almost > impossible to get through any Perl without. And to read someone elses's > perl you have to look up the special symbols. Is that as true in C or Java? > or are the routines and even the constructs closer to English in those > languages? Also being able to change the symbols/structures used in > constructs (such as =~ m#something# vs just /something/) can be daunting for > beginners. > > What other languages allow the return of multiple values? Ask any professor > if this is a good idea, I don't have to justify that perspective. I didn't > say what should be done, I gave my opinion on what should not be done. If > you learn to do this in Perl, how will you adapt to other languages? And I > certainly never suggested global variables! > > What other language is so well known for the blunders of it's programmers? > Do I have to mention Matt's Script Archive? Even people on this list Perl > have written that code they have dispersed in the past has taught bad > practices. Not that C or Java disables mistakes, they just force you to > think in a more structured manner. I think this is critical for beginners. > > Most degrees in CS/CIS require that you write a simple compiler. If you > don't learn pointers and memory management, how are you going to write a > compiler, in Perl? I think memory management is also critical to new > programmers, or even what the concept of memory is, how to allocate, protect > and reclaim it. Just because we have tools that make this unnecessary do we > skip this? Because we have graphing calculators do we start with Calculus > III? > > I never said C stopped you from making mistakes - I think I said that the > user would learn more from them. I agree that Perl is a way of thinking. > I am not sure it is the basis for an education in CS/CIS. Is there any > reason not to learn C and Java? Which has broader applications? When I > apply for certain jobs I take Perl off my resume because it is not > considered professional. > > Interesting that no one refuted the loosely typed statement; I think data > types and conversions are critical concepts to beginners. Didn't everyone > who ever took a CS class have to convert from hex, write sort routines, > etc.? Also funny that people will defend Perl so forcefully to a devotee. > Would I be on a Perl list if I didn't believe in Perl? > > Can someone summarize the arguments for why Perl is a good language for > beginners instead of just countering the arguments against it? I promise > not to respond. > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
