On 10/25/2016 10:54 AM, Daniel J Walsh wrote: > > > On 10/25/2016 01:43 PM, Josh Berkus wrote: >> On 10/21/2016 01:17 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote: >>> >>> On 10/21/2016 01:14 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: >>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 01:03:58PM -0400, Joe Brockmeier wrote: >>>>> I like Dan's proposal of rhel7-init (or fedora-init, centos-init). >>>> For whatever it's worth, I don't. It makes sense if you're steeped in >>>> the distro world where init systems have been a hot topic for the last >>>> few years, but without that context it sounds like it's something about >>>> inititalizing RHEL/Fedora/CentOS, not that there's a process manager >>>> running. Or even an initial attempt at making a rhel7 container. >>>> >>> Do you prefer >>> rhel7-systemd, fedora-systemd, centos-systemd >>> or >>> rhel7-system, fedora-system, centos-system >>> >>> Or don't like the idea at all? >> Given that we already get flak ... which leads to reduced adoption ... >> of our base images due to their large size, this seems like the wrong >> direction to move into. >> >> Systemd and its dependencies are quite large, sometimes larger than >> everything else in the container combined, both in storage space and in >> memory footprint. If we want to push the idea of having systemd inside >> containers, then we need a new tiny version of systemd designed for >> containers. And by "tiny" I mean "less than 10MB, with few or no >> dependancies which are liable to create extra update churn". >> >> A tiny systemd would be a great selling point. We'd have integrated >> journaling, more sophisticated PID1 scripts, zombie harvesting, etc. >> Those things are benefits to the developer, and we could promote them. >> But nobody's going to buy those at the cost of 100MB+ of bloat. >> > Well splitting it into two container images rhel7 and rhel7-systemd, > would allow you to > get closer to your deal. We attempted to do fakesytemd and > systemd-container, but both > ended causing more trouble then they were worth. We currently ship real > systemd inside > of the RHEL7/Fedora/Centos container images, I believe it has been > shrunk as far as its dependencies > but removing it would be better, although every daemon package that you > install will pull it > in, since they all currently require systemctl. > > Colin's work on this should improve the situation, and I think we have > shrunk the size of Fedora > images with some of the newer versions of rpm/dnf.
Well, there's no reason why a systemd designed for just container init couldn't be tiny; it's requirements would be so much less than one running outside a container. But it would be essentially a new piece of software. -- -- Josh Berkus Project Atomic Red Hat OSAS
